Support the People of Iran Against the Theocrats!
Support for the mass protests against Ahmadinejad’s re-election! But we should have no illusions that Massouvi would have been any better
Yassamine Mather, chair of Hands Off the People of Iran, assesses the highly fluid situation in Iran: (Here)
One awaits the analysis of those who broadcast on Iranian fundamentalist Press TV. Notably that darling of Socialist Unity, George Galloway (Here).
Tendance Coatesy 
strange, how, bar the above author and a few others, that the West’s collective revoluntaires are relativity silent on the people’s revolt in Iran?
still I suppose that once the Guardian has taken a position then a line will be forthcoming 🙂
modernityblog
June 15, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Yes, the silence from Socialist Unity has been deafening.
The real question is: where are those who took the regime’s shilling on Press TV now?
Andrew Coates
June 16, 2009 at 11:50 am
If I remember rightly, Galloway has been at pains to point out that Iran is a real democracy, and how anyone can stand (provided they get the clerics approval of course.) Presumably Andy Newman is waiting to see what the great man thinks before posting.
Glad to see HOPI getting their views across, A Very Public Sociologist also seems to have a very good take on the situation.
Modernity, I think the majority of revolutionaries would take the HOPI line, all those except in the SWP and AWL it would seem from the list of supporters.
Vengeance and Fashion
June 16, 2009 at 9:37 pm
V&F, you wrote: “majority of revolutionaries would take the HOPI line”
would they? I am not so bold as to assume, I prefer people to state their views clearly, as you’d expect from politicos, so there’s no room for misinterpretation.
If you look at international events, when there’s no script or well trodden path then much of the British Left tends to tail-end the Guardian rather than say something quickly, and have to admit they were wrong later on, (see Harry Pollitt in 1939).
On top of that there is the political compromises that have been made to excuse or explain away Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s racism, so I think that many in the West initially didn’t know who to back.
Jim at the Daily (Maybe) and Phil at the APVS are rather exceptional, they can think on their feet a bit.
modernityblog
June 16, 2009 at 10:08 pm
George Galloway: http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/georgegalloway/2009/06/you-can-count-on-the-fact-elec.html … simply disgusting this guy
entdinglichung
June 17, 2009 at 12:22 pm
and John Wight guff on SU blog wasn’t much better either, NPA were clear tho.
modernityblog
June 17, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Modernity, I think it’s fair to say that I was a little optimistic there, but it does seem that the CPGB, the SP, ecosocialists, Permanant Revolution, the SSP, the Socialist Alliance and a minority in Respect do take the basic class line represented by HOPI.
Where I live the SWP have very little presence, so perhaps I underestimate their pervasiveness, but just because the likes of them and the AWL shout loudest (and most idiotically) doesn’t mean they necessarily make up the vast majority, or even a majority at all. I could be wrong of course, let’s hope so.
Vengeance and Fashion
June 17, 2009 at 7:17 pm
yeah V&F, I think some are better than others, HOPI stuff is good and clear.
But overall in the age of the Internet the British Left don’t have a singular message or thrust on world events. Some events are covered because we’ve been there before, others like the crisis in the *middle* of Africa get very little attention, very little independent analysis.
Consider the 1930s, no Internet, hardly any phones world-wide and yet the Left press managed to put out a distinctive point on all major events across the globe. That’s world-wide.
2009, it should be easier, news is streamed to the desktop and yet the British Left, overall, are politically slower then their predecessors in the 1930s.
Ask a few key players about Tibet, Napal, etc and their eyes will start to roll.
modernityblog
June 17, 2009 at 7:39 pm
That’s true Modernity, but I do think there can be a tendency to abandon all consideration of key struggles and issues in Britain for analysis of overseas events – the preposterously named Lenin’s Tomb for one. I exclude the Tendance from this only partially.
I think the focus on certain areas is more a reflection on whether the organisation has a sister party there. Articles done on countries with no sister parties often seem to be quick internet research jobs, with the standard analysis for the particular group tacked on.
Vengeance and Fashion
June 17, 2009 at 11:00 pm
V&F,
Ok, but unless we think internationally then how different are we from say, UKIP or the Labour Party?
I don’t see it as one or the other.
I think when we read and think about developments in Europe then there’s a lot to learn, and to avoid, for example, pointing out that many New Labour schemes have been tried in Europe or other countries and simply didn’t work, is a useful argument.
The wider problem is that you have a generation of socialists, etc who simply can’t think for themselves.
Grab a SWPer and fire a few simple questions at him/her and you’ll often be met with a glazed look of incomprehension. Or you’ll get some fairly meaningless slogans thrown back at you, which convinces no one, thus don’t win people over, so lead to a smaller, insular left, etc
That’s why I like TC, I like informed thought and France is harder to understand than many think, also I am very much against the little Englander mentality which pervades much of the British Left.
The trouble is, that failure after failure, with no lessons learnt is the worse possible way for things to happen. Thus that’s why Galloway’s crowning by Lefties as some hero was one of the worst thing to happen for years, and blindingly obvious too.
Galloway was clearly dodgy from the start, but wishful thinking and a quest for power led people to support and praise him, and it wasn’t convincing.
Still worse, it puts people off politics and activism along the lines of:
“well, if they (Respect supporters) are clueless about Galloway, then how will they have an idea about anything else remotely complex”
and time has shown all of that to be true, all of it could have been avoided.
modernityblog
June 17, 2009 at 11:22 pm
I’m not arguing we don’t think internationally, just that we don’t fall into the trap of those who are more comfortable and interested the further from Britain you go.
I agree about many being unable to think for themselves, a product I think of the SWPs Stalinist internal culture, where no independent thinking or debate is allowed or encouraged.
Vengeance and Fashion
June 18, 2009 at 1:56 am
I think we agree on much. I’ll bet that surprised you 🙂
I am not sure that the SWP can be blamed for everything, it occurs to me it is 5 (maybe more) things, at least:
1. Decline of trade union activism. Being a lay official or activist in the trade union forces you to interact with a varied membership, whose political views could vary from entrenched Tories to the apathetic and the nonpolitical, plus of course a few like-minded souls. But because you are working for and on behalf of a diverse membership you have to use many skills and types of arguments. That is not the case when interacting with other lefties, most of the arguments are shortcuts and basic. Questions such as why trade unions are important or why nationalization might be a good idea often goes unanswered.
A prime example, is the Martin Smith Newsnight interview, he wasn’t prepared to think about other people’s arguments, how they saw it and respond cogently. But those of some of the skills that you need to be a competent trade unionist.
That’s been lost in the past 20 years as far as I can see it.
2. The bubble, much of the British Left seems to exist within a nice confined bubble, without too many external distractions and that breeds lazy thinking. It means that sometimes Lefties and politicos have a problem talking to ordinary people in ordinary language, too much jargon is used. My favourite is “neoliberal”,when you know what it means it’s obvious, but to the uninitiated it might sound like a quasi member of the Liberal party 🙂
3. The decline of antifascism which tends to go hand in hand with various groups political priorities, but it means overall that the Left doesn’t reach out, or go to those awkward places, unless an election is on or something similar. Equally it means that one whole aspect of previous Left thinking is lost, opposition to fascism whatever shape or form it comes in, opposition to authoritarianism whatever shape or form it comes in, etc Skills are lost.
4. Crass Leninism. Whilst I could see a case for a Leninist party in Iran or Syria, Burma, etc all of those repressive regimes, it doesn’t really work too well in the West. Or at least all of the implementations since the 1930s seem to have failed one way or the other.
I think that Leninism is inherently hierarchical, it concentrates far too much power in a few individuals and not unsurprisingly those individuals sometimes become power crazed and act as if they can do no wrong, when the reality is they are probably more fallible than most of us.
On top of that it breeds a mentality, the leaders and the led, someone who gives the instructions and someone who takes it, which I think profoundly limits debate.
Finally, there is a problem with the “line”, where Leninists will often spin you some argument that they don’t really believe in, but have been told to push out, and it often comes over as very insincere or silly. People switch off as a result, so when these Leninists actually have something interesting and intelligent to say, no one is listening, or very few people are.
5. Which brings me to the final problem as I see it, argumentation skills or lack of.
The British Left are notorious for believing the worst of their political opponents and wish the most charitable interpretation to be placed on all of their endeavours, no matter how ridiculous or obviously faulty.
This links into the preceding points, so much of what passes for discussion on the British Left is done in bad faith and the motives of others always open to question.
The net result is that people switch off.
If someone is going to cynically produce fallacious arguments, ignore evidence, wish for charitable interpretations but put the worst on everyone else’s view, then in the end no one really wants to discuss issues in that cynical way.
It doesn’t happen absolutely all the time, but surprisingly, in my experience, much of the time and in turn it breeds a very bad atmosphere, it is not conducive to winning people over. It makes the British Left look like a pile of argumentative cranks, quick nitpickers but slow to the do anything meaningful.
That’s not a comprehensive list but I suspect portions of it are true on different occasions with different people.
I think the culture of the British Left has to change or be consumed by a resurgence neo-fascism, which is just waiting to flex its muscles.
That’s a few of my ideas, I have probably miss some.
modernityblog
June 18, 2009 at 2:52 am
V&F – what’s wrong with the AWL line on Iran? Seems ok to me: http://www.workersliberty.org/world/international/middle-east/iran
Bob
June 18, 2009 at 12:14 pm
The pdf url I just posted (which probably put the post in the spam queue) is now dead. Ignoblus sums it up here:
http://ignoblus.newsvine.com/_news/2007/06/12/777415-anti-zionism-as-a-cultural-code
Bob
June 18, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Bo, wasn’t that meant for another thread? below ?
modernityblog
June 18, 2009 at 1:54 pm
No, but the comment it refers to didn’t appear, either due to my technical incompetence or due to too many links sending it to Andrew’s spam box.
Basically, I said that I think the issue is more than “sister organisations”, but that certain issues have become litmus tests, shibboleths, for leftist true believer identity: namely, Izzy-Pal and the Iraq war (THE war).
I said that Shulamit Volkov’s idea of anti-Zionism as a “cultural code” is a helpful resource for thinking about that. I think I first came across that idea via Will at General Theory.
Bob
June 18, 2009 at 4:09 pm
gotcha Bob,
modernityblog
June 19, 2009 at 12:02 am