Tendance Coatesy

Left Socialist Blog

Atheists face prison in Egypt as Non-Belief may be made illegal.

with 60 comments

https://en.qantara.de/sites/default/files/styles/slideshow_wide/public/uploads/2016/01/06/alber-550x326_5.jpg?itok=IHL_NImV

Charged in 2012 with “defamation of Islam and Christianity, insulting the divine and satirizing religious rituals and sanctities and the prophets under articles 98, 160 and 161 of the Egyptian Penal Code”

There are many countries where Atheism is a crime.

Atheists, and those accused of defection from the official religion, may be subject to discrimination and persecution in many Islamic countries. According to the International Humanist and Ethical Union, compared to other nations, “unbelievers… in Islamic countries face the most severe – sometimes brutal – treatment” Wikipedia.

Last year the Independent reported,

In thirteen countries, you can be sentenced to death for not having a faith

1.    Afghanistan

2.    Iran

3.    Malaysia

4.    Maldives

5.    Mauritania

6.    Nigeria

7.    Pakistan

8.    Qatar

9.    Saudi Arabia

10.    Somalia

11.    Sudan

12.    United Arab Emirates

13.    Yemen.

These regimes have laws that put people to death for ” blasphemy or apostasy”.

In Egypt, a state where the Sharia is one of the ‘sources’ of legislation, there has long been intolerance and the criminalisation of non-belief.

In January 2015 this happened:

A student has been sentenced to three years in prison for announcing on Facebook that he was an atheist and thereby “insulting Islam”. Karim Ashraf Mohamed al-Banna, aged 21, was arrested in November 2014 with a group of other people at a cafe in Cairo.

Police then closed down the so-called “atheists cafe” in what is being viewed as a coordinated government crackdown on atheists. A local administrator told a news website that the coffee shop was “known as a place for satan worship, rituals and dances”.

Egyptian police shutdown ‘atheist cafe’ accused of harbouring ‘Satan worship’

#EgyptTurmoil

The café, on Falaky Street in the downtown neighbourhood of Abdeen, was “destroyed” after local residents reported customers as spreading “wrong thoughts regarding religions”, Arabic-language daily Sada al-Baladreported.

“We have destroyed the café of the devil worshippers in Falaki Street for being illegal and for having a number of atheists spreading their thoughts,” local police chief Gamal Mohi told the daily.

However, when speaking to independent outlet Mada Masr, Mohi denied the café had been demolished and said it was actually shutdown in November “following noise complaints from local residents”.

“There was no demolition involved, only confiscation of the coffee shop’s property,” he said. “This was all done in accordance with the law and legal procedures.”

The café owner was the only person arrested in the raid, according to Mohi, who said he was being held “as his coffee shop was unauthorised, unlicensed, and also because drugs were found inside”.

“There was no sign reading ‘atheists’ café’ outside, as nobody would put up such a public announcement. However, it was popularly known as a place for Satan worship, rituals and dances. There were also Satanic drawings at the entrance,” the police chief said.

No publicly available evidence has been produced to verify the police chief’s allegations of Satan worship at the café and he did not explain why atheists – who reject the existence of both God and Satan – would be engaging in such practices.

Egyptian rights activists denounced the café closure as being “the wrong and criminal action”, providing the business was operating legally.

“No one has the right to arrest someone for his thoughts,” Ali Atef, from the Arabic Network for Human Rights Information, told The Cairo Post. “And to be fair and honest, usually these incidents happen for arresting atheists, and later they explain that the café papers were illegal, which is usually wrong.”

In August 2017 there was this,

Egyptian TV presenter El-Beheiry was sentenced to five years in prison after being found guilty of blasphemy—a charge filed against him by Al-Azhar, Egypt’s highest Sunni authority. El-Beheiry’s show had tackled controversial issues on Islam such as punishments for apostasy, early marriage, and different interpretations of the Hadith—the sayings and teachings of Mohamed.

According to article 98 of the Egyptian Penal Code, those found guilty of insulting the monotheistic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) could face a fine or up to five years in prison. But the blasphemy law works mostly in favour of Muslims because they are the ones who bring this charge against people the most.

As can be seen, ‘insulting’ religion is punishable by law, but atheism is not as such, yet, a crime.

But now the Egyptian authorities are considering extending this persecution to make atheism itself a crime.

Lawmakers in Egypt are seriously considering passing a law that would make atheism illegal.

Blasphemy is already illegal in Egypt, and people are frequently arrested for insulting or defaming religion under the country’s strict laws. The newly proposed rule would make it illegal for people not to believe in God, even if they don’t talk about it.

“The phenomenon [of atheism] is being promoted in society as freedom of belief, when this is totally wrong,” Amro Hamroush, head of Egypt’s Parliament’s committee on religion, said when he introduced the bill in late December.

“[Atheism] must be criminalized and categorized as contempt of religion because atheists have no doctrine and try to insult the Abrahamic religions,” he wrote in the local daily paper Al-Shorouq.

As France Info points out in a new broadcast, you are obliged to declare your beliefs to the authorities., which will then appear on your identity card.

Already Christians and non-Muslims are second-class citizens.

Now, if the legislation is passed, you will not be a citizen at all, and a resident of a prison cell.

Égypte : les athées seront-ils bientôt mis en prison ?

Background:

Egypt’s war on atheism

There have been waves of panic about atheism in the predominantly conservative Islamic country for some years, largely driven from the top-down by government officials, religious leaders, and some media. The ‘crackdown’ on atheism has included a campaign to ‘inoculate’ or ‘educate’ young people away from atheism. Some highly questionable regional polling data in 2014 determined that there were precisely 866 atheists in the country. The figure was used as a justification for the ‘war on atheists’, though ironically the figure (which would represent just 0.001% of the population) is undoubtedly a huge underestimate and was dismissed by atheists locally as “highly unrealistic”.

The former Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa, in September 2014, put the level of atheism at 12.5 percent of young people (which is more realistic but the origin of the figure is unclear). Figures from the Family Court state that 6,500 women filed for a divorce in 2015 due to their husbands’ atheism. (Under the Personal Status Law, Muslim women can apply for divorce if their husbands denounce religion.)

The Sisi government has been pushing a line that has been described as “militantly mainstream“, targeting some conservatives and extremist interpretations of Islam as well as atheists and liberals.

Police have raided internet cafes that were alleged to be meeting places for atheists, and while atheism has become a hot topic in the country’s media, those invited to advocate atheism in televised debates have faced death threats and harassment.

Last month, a 29-year-old computer science graduate Ibrahim Khalil was detained on the accusation of ‘contempt of religion’. He was accused of running a Facebook page called ‘Atheism’ on which he allegedly published “distortions of the Quran” and advocated atheism.

Another student, 21-year-old Karim Ashraf Mohamed al-Banna, was sentenced to three years in November 2014 for announcing on Facebook that he was an atheist.

The media, religious leaders and politicians sometimes link atheism to homosexuality, which is similarly reviled, and promote the idea that atheism and homosexuality are mutually reinforcing “psychological imbalances”.

Advertisements

Written by Andrew Coates

March 1, 2018 at 5:25 pm

60 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. The Sisi dictatorship in Egypt has the support of the United States political establishment:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2016/09/20/clinton-trump-befriend-egyptian-dictator-sisi/

    petrel41

    March 1, 2018 at 5:36 pm

  2. That is hardly the point.

    The point is that this is – as the lengthy article from the Humanists at the end indicates – generated from the toxic mix of Islamism and Egyptian politics.

    Andrew Coates

    March 1, 2018 at 5:46 pm

  3. That there is a military dictatorship, supported by the US government, which has destroyed the progress of the Arab Spring in Egypt IS an important point here.

    petrel41

    March 1, 2018 at 5:57 pm

  4. It’s beside the point re persecution of atheists, petrel: are you trying to change the subject, by shouting “Over there!”?

    Jim Denham

    March 1, 2018 at 9:22 pm

  5. Persecuting atheists, and many others, fits in the whole of the Sisi dictatorship pattern,

    As far as the WordPress statistics say, you did not even bother to look at the link in my comment, to look for yourself whether the fact that Egypt is a military dictatorship is relevant in this context or not. Or, do you have paranormal powers to know whether a blog post is relevant or not, without clicking on the link?

    petrel41

    March 1, 2018 at 9:31 pm

  6. I’ve looked at it, petrel: what’s it got to do with the issue of the persecution of atheists in Muslim states? Please explain.

    Jim Denham

    March 1, 2018 at 10:14 pm

  7. The link says that a woman was murdered by the Sisi regime for being socialist. I have no idea whether she was Muslim, Christian, atheist, agnostic or whatever. She was socalist and Arab Spring supporter. That is why the Sisi dictatorship killed her. Dictators like Sisi always persecute and often kill everyone who disagrees only 1% with them. That includes atheists; but is not limited to them.

    petrel41

    March 1, 2018 at 10:29 pm

  8. And your point is?

    Jim Denham

    March 1, 2018 at 11:39 pm

  9. Are you able to understand that a dictator=a dictator?

    petrel41

    March 1, 2018 at 11:45 pm

  10. His point is Jim Denham that whatever bad happens in the world its always the fault of the wicked west. Childish beyond belief but that is what much of the left has been reduced to.

    Dave Roberts

    March 2, 2018 at 6:17 am

  11. Oh, how hard it is to read what is written [sarcasm off]

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 8:10 am

  12. That’s a turn up for the books! As the left attacked the West for supporting the Arab Spring in Libya. No they are doing an about face and saying the West is against the Arab Spring?

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm

  13. What an insult to the brave Arab Spring activists of Tunisia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain and the UAE to equal them with the jihadist ground troops of NATO in Libya.

    The ‘West’ (rather the RULING CLASSES in the ‘West’, as there is also an exploited majority in these countries) *opposed* the real Arab Spring in all these countries.

    See, eg,

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/g8-against-arab-spring/

    They did support the jihadis in Libya. These jihadis brought Libya bloodshed which still continues, murder of feminists and many other civilians. Eg,

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2014/06/28/womens-rights-activist-murdered-then-witness-murdered-in-brave-new-libya/

    These jihadis brought slavery back to Libya. Libya, where it had been abolished in the ninetenthy century before the USA, the Dutch colonial empire, etc. did so.

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 2:40 pm

  14. The Arab Spring lacked structure that is why it failed and lead to dictatorship(s). Or were they just puppets in the first place?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/sheerafrenkel/how-egypts-rebel-movement-helped-pave-the-way-for-a-sisi-pre?utm_term=.xgqkKMOjr#.fs2bOjL06

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 2:59 pm

  15. The Arab Spring movement in Egypt is not the whole of the Arab Spring in many countries. And the 2013 Tamarod movement mentioned in the link is not the whole of the Egyptian Arab Spring, which started in 2011, with preparations much earlier. That the army hijacked and perverted Tamarod, cheating them, is no reason to blame the victims as ‘puppets’.

    See the many blog posts at

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/tag/arab-spring/

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 4:56 pm

  16. Well it seems to have backfired on them and installed a lot of US friendly governments or hard line Islamist ones. So why would the US be against the Arab Spring?

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm

  17. Less profit opportunities for United States multinational corporations. Less military industrial complex exports to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. US Vice President Joe Biden kept praising Mubarak until just before his downfall. So did Tony Blair. Just after the fall of Mubarak, the CIA tried to have Mubarak’s torturer in chief as his successor. But that failed as the Arab Spring was then too strong.

    Likewise, the French Sarkozy government kept propping up Tunisian dictator Ben Ali up to his downfall. And after that downfall they aimed at ‘Ben Aliism without Ben Ali’.

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 7:38 pm

  18. Seems to be doing fine compared to other economies…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 7:43 pm

  19. I’m still scratching my head here. The Arab Spring was good, because it got rid of pro-US governments and the governments that replaced them will trade less with the US and more with (fill in blank). This is good because… (fill in blank)

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 7:57 pm

  20. I mentioned why the US and other NATO governments opposed the Arab Spring; as you asked.

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 8:11 pm

  21. I thought the same thing Steve Johnson. There is obviously some devious plan devised by the secret world government that has been conspiring against us for centuries and whose existence was revealed in The Protocols of The Elders of Zion! For the petrels of this world there are no coincidences.. There is a fiendish, western, capitalist, Zionist plot and that fact that we can’t see it means that we have been duped or we are actually agents of the conspiracy. It’s obvious when you think about it!

    Dave Roberts

    March 2, 2018 at 9:10 pm

  22. I would be indignant about this totally fact free smear of anti-Semitism an/or belief in the Elders of Zion hoax by Dave Roberts. However, I am not indignant as it is by such a brainless person. For those interested how i really see anti-Semitism, see

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/tag/anti-semitism/

    petrel41

    March 2, 2018 at 9:18 pm

  23. petrel141. I have just looked at the two dear kitty references you give and there is nothing in either to support your theories. Rather to the contrary the G8 conference invited Tunisia and Egypt to discuss extending democracy in those countries and economic aid. One of the article gives a link to the SWP website and the utterly bonkers Alex Callinicos.

    Dave Roberts

    March 2, 2018 at 9:20 pm

  24. I was going to say that Dave! I mean, I’d have expect the SWP to say these atheists deserve their fate, it they criticise a certain religion that the SWP love with a passion!
    As for the US, well people have been saying for centuries that *insert blank* is one in the eye for US capitalism. I guess petrel and co are just saying this about the Arab Spring. I rather think that US capitalism will have the last laugh on them! But sticking to facts, who the heck can the governments that come after the Arab Spring going to want to stop trading with the US? If the US sells what they and their citizens need then they will have to. If they don’t they will have to buy them from elsewhere.

    Steven Johnston

    March 2, 2018 at 10:32 pm

  25. Steven Johnson. In the words of the great Michael Caine, ” Talk about stating the bleedin obvious”. The SWP and associated loonies work on the principal that my enemy’s enemy is my friend. It has got them into trouble time and again and in parts of the world like Iran the hangman’s noose and the firing squad. The Iranian left before 1979 was large and powerful. Not powerful enough to overthrow the Shah but still a political force. The actively aided and abetted Khomenie and the Islamo fascists and helped them to power. Once that was achieved the Mullahs turned on them and they were wiped out.

    A similar event although with less fatal consequences happened in the UK with Respect. The SWP or a section of it persuaded the party to go into an electoral alliance or popular front with the Islamic Forum Europe a front for Jaamat i Islam, opportunistic aspiring Bangladeshi wanabee politicians and George Galloway came together in what is the biggest disaster for the left in this country since the last one. On election night the Bangladeshi electorate voted for the Bangladeshi candidates on the Respect list and not the whites, all SWP, on the instructions of the Mosques.

    The SWP had lost control and in less than eighteen months the whole thing was falling apart. The SWP was riven with recriminations and denunciations and it only took the Comrade Delta rape affair to split them beyond repair. The remaining SWP and the Counterfire lot are still trying to work out what happened and blaming each other/Galloway and Uncle Tom Cobley and all or just not mentioning it as if it was all just a bad dream. Nodoubt we will now have a considered and measured response from petrel, or not as the case may be.

    Dave Roberts

    March 3, 2018 at 10:27 am

  26. But all we seem to get from Petrel is, this does not matter, as long as the new regimes trade less with America. Presumably he has more than just crocodile tears for any American workers that end up on the scrap heap as a result of this?

    Steven Johnston

    March 3, 2018 at 4:48 pm

  27. If you would have *read* my comment, then you would have seen it was about the military-industrial complex, warned against by the late US President Eisenhower. It is a parasite on economies in the USA and also in many other countries. Workers now working for the merchants of death should get courses to acquire new skills and should be offered new jobs in work which does not kill people.

    Like proposed by the British Lucas Aerospace workers:

    https://www.redpepper.org.uk/what-if-the-workers-were-in-control/

    US, British etc. merchants of death get rich by selling weapons to the Saudi absolute monarchy for genocide against the people in Yemen and for killing pro-democracy demonstrators in Saudi-occupied Bahrain and in Saudi Arabia itself. They also sold/sell many weapons to Mubarak in Egypt, and to Sisi, the oppressor of atheists and many others, now.

    That is one of the reasons why Joe Biden, US vice president, and Tony Blair kept insisting that Mubarak was supposedly not a dictator, until his downfall.

    petrel41

    March 3, 2018 at 5:07 pm

  28. Stop it with the military-industrial complex! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA…oh wow, that went out with flares and spangles! Post-war West Germany and Japan had high growth rates despite minimal defence spending, high defence costs ended up bankrupting the USSR.

    Steven Johnston

    March 3, 2018 at 5:13 pm

  29. Indeed. That is why I wrote the military-industrial complex is a parasite on economies. But obviously, you prefer to use straw man arguments. Though the military-industrial complex is harmful to the economy as a whole, especially for non-privileged people, it is very beneficial for political powerful sections of the 1% richest people. Like Donald Trump, who profited personally from bombing Syria:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/trump-profiting-from-his-warmongering/

    petrel41

    March 3, 2018 at 5:28 pm

  30. ‘political powerful’ should be ‘politically powerful’; English not being my first language 🙂

    petrel41

    March 3, 2018 at 5:29 pm

  31. The issue is surely that the MIC explanation of how capitalism in the USA has developed has some validity, and few can doubt the importance of armaments etc, but it’s not much use in explaining US geopolitical strategy.

    The view many take in any case is that Islamism, in its many forms, from Erdogan, Wahhabi ideology, Salafism, to Deash, has its own dynamics, its own oppressions, its own murders, without having always to lay the blame on the US, or “imperialism”.

    Andrew Coates

    March 3, 2018 at 5:48 pm

  32. The military-industrial complex surely has a big influence on United States (and British etc.) foreign policy.

    Look at the revolving door between the Pentagon and the weapons merchants:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2012/11/20/pentagon-war-profiteers-revolving-door-in-the-usa/

    Boeing, General Electric etc. hated the idea of no longer being able to sell weapons to ‘reliable ally’ Mubarak. The US and British military-industrial complexes hate the idea of no longer being able to sell weapons to the Saudi Arabian Wahabbi monarchy to kill Yemenis and Saudi demonstrators. And Theresa May and Donald Trump give themj what they want.

    petrel41

    March 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm

  33. ‘themj’=them.

    petrel41

    March 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm

  34. Yet every country is a capitalist country and they would all be imperialist if they could get away with it. Why this hatred of US capitalism. I bet if you were around in 1941-45 you would not be siding with Hitler and decrying the MIC then…

    Steven Johnston

    March 3, 2018 at 7:18 pm

  35. What about Russia, China, Pakistan? They trade in weapons, are they part of the military-industrial complex?

    Suer

    March 3, 2018 at 9:27 pm

  36. Don’t be a silly Seur! Those countries are anti Imperialist. The fact that they are repressive dictatorships is neither here nor there and any mention of such a fact is quite clearly evidence that you are in the pay of western imperialist/capitalist/Jewish interests as well of some that I’ve left out but will remember when I come back from Wetherspoons.

    Dave Roberts

    March 4, 2018 at 11:07 am

  37. I’m sure petrel will come back with the reply “you didn’t read what I wrote did you?”
    But to get back to the Arab Spring, it now looks like they did not have clear aims, so any government they overthrow, well they were not able to fill that vacuum. But something just as bad or worse did. Which just goes to show that these movements are not worthy of support.

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 10:11 am

  38. They did have clear aims of democracy. What they lacked was the weapons of the army and the police. But that does not make them unworthy of support.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 12:42 pm

  39. So did/do Solidarity, so do the Conservatives, so do UKIP…all of these parties and many more have clear aims of democracy. But none of them would get my support.

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 12:56 pm

  40. But I don’t want to derail this thread. But petrel, your point about the US being against the Arab Spring is nonsense. As the neo-cons were supporters of the Arab Spring movement in Afghanistan and Iraq. There was a belief that if you got rid of the feudal regimes in this country and installed democracy you could have peace and free-trade. Now are you trying to tell me that you would not have told the neo-cons this was a Utopian pipe-dream?

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 1:03 pm

  41. Bush’s Afghan war, starting in 2001 and Bush’s Iraq war, starting in 2003, had hardly anything to do with the Arab Spring of 2011 and later. Afghanistan is not even Arab. The US neoconservatives did not want an ‘Arab spring’ by people of the countries concerned. They wanted regime change war by the armed forces of the Pentagon and some allies. A very big difference. The people can bring democracy from below. Invading armies cannot impose democracy from above.

    The official pretexts of Bush’s Iraq war were: 1The supposed role of Iraq in 9/11. When that turned out to be a lie, the Bush clique claimed they had never said that. 2. Supposed Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. A lie as well. Admitted by Colin Powell.

    In their war propaganda, the Bush and Blair administrations, after these two pretexts had turned out to be lies, used the pretext of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan. Later, Bush’s Pentagon boss Rumsfeld admitted that he had never seriously wanted democracy for Iraq. Tony Blair admitted that as well:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/i-didnt-want-democracy-in-iraq-rumsfeld-confesses/

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 1:39 pm

  42. So why did you bring them up if they had nothing to do with the Arab Spring…I never said anything about the war in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I was talking about the Arab Spring movements in these countries…

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 2:32 pm

  43. Though on a side point, petrel, is being an atheist illegal in the US? Is it illegal in the UK? No you say, so why would either country support it being illegal elsewhere? I bet if you or I were on holiday in one of the countries it is illegal, and fell foul of the law, the UK embassy would help me out. Heck, even the right-wing press in this country would be outraged.

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 2:43 pm

  44. You mentioned the neoconservatives, who in their Iraq and Afghan war propaganda sometimes claimed their regime change wars would bring democracy and ‘free trade’. Post Tunisia and Egypt 2011, there was no ‘Arab Spring’ movement in non-Arab Afghanistan. Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain in 2011ff did have some influence on Iraq and Afghanistan; on pro-democracy movements there *against* the governments imposed by Bush’s neoconservative invasions. The neoconservatives certainly did not support movements against regimes which they themselves had helped install.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 2:47 pm

  45. Well petrel, I’m sure we can agree on one thing. That any government, if it works within capitalism will end up being used by and serving capitalism. Or do you disagree with that?

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 2:57 pm

  46. A very general statement, with which I don’t disagree. Unless it it is about a government, starting within capitalism, which tries to work towards socialism. Such a government may succeed; or it may be overthrown in a murderous coup, like Allende in Chile.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 3:08 pm

  47. Does anyone get the impression that the line here seems to be, anything good that comes from the Arab Spring is to their credit. Anything bad is the fault of the West. Now you can’t have it both ways! If the West is against Islamic dictatorships it is hardly going to fund them to undermine the Arab Spring!

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 3:09 pm

  48. The ‘West’ is NOT against ‘Islamic’ dictatorships. Look eg at the United States and British weapons for the Bahraini absolute monarchy to drown the big Arab Spring movement there in blood. Look at the United States and British weapons and logistic support for the Saudi wahhabi dictatorship’s war of extermination in Yemen, in revenge for the overthrow by the Arab Spring of the pro-Saudi pro-Pentagon dictatorship in Yemen.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 3:54 pm

  49. A-ha! Then you are knackered then. You see, if the West was able to negate the good that the Arab Spring achieved, then it was pointless supporting it in the first place. Why have you put ‘Islamic’ in commas?

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 4:34 pm

  50. Those are private companies supplying the monarchies. That does not mean that the governments support who they are selling too! Krupp was selling weapons to the French government right up the start of WW2. did that mean Hitler was happy with this? Of course he wasn’t It’s disingenuous to say that because companies from country A, export to country B, that country A supports the regime there.

    Steven Johnston

    March 5, 2018 at 4:47 pm

  51. I put both ‘West’ and ‘Islamic’ in commas because there are both ‘Western’ and ‘Islamic’ ruling classes; and both ‘Western’ and ‘Islamic’ exploited classes. These should not be conflated.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 5:51 pm

  52. ‘These are private companies’ … Come on! The British government (both Conservative and Blairist) is very intertwined with corporations like the BAE merchants of death. There is a ‘revolving door’ between those corporations and government. These companies need governmental licenses to be able to export. Without them they would be breaking the law. And they get these licenses.

    Do you really pity poor Hitler, though a dictator, supposedly so powerless against what Krupp wanted to export?

    Do you really pity poor Donald Trump, supposedly so powerless against what US merchants of death want to export? During his trip to Saudi Arabia in May 2017, US President Donald Trump signed a $110 billion arms deal with the Saudi regime. So, *Trump* signed that deal; not corporate CEOs:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2017/12/29/saudi-regime-keeps-killing-yemeni-civilians/

    Do you really pity poor Theresa May, supposedly so powerless against what British merchants of death want to export?

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2017/12/20/british-help-for-saudi-regimes-butchering-of-yemenis/

    In fact, Trump supports the bloody Saudi war on Yemen not just by licensing these exports, but also by refueling Saudi warplanes and sending US soldiers to help:

    https://dearkitty1.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/united-states-navy-attacks-yemen-helping-saudis-killing-civilians/

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 6:09 pm

  53. The arms industry is how the UK makes it’s dollar; it is the arms industry that is keeping Grand Britannia afloat. These are massive industries. Say if May decreed that the UK would no longer take part in this industry, what do you think the effect on the economy would be? We are all benefiting of the back of the arms industry, whether we like to admit it or not, some literally, as in benefits.

    Martin Lockheed

    March 5, 2018 at 9:18 pm

  54. Spot on, Dave Roberts. And what about the Feminists who are aligned with Islam and even best friends with Ayatollahs. What place for the Feminists and women in general if an Islamic Republic of the UK (Europe) ever comes to fruition. They are a strange lot indeed these ‘lefty’/SWP/Galloway types.

    ACobblerico

    March 5, 2018 at 9:40 pm

  55. George Galloway, the SWP and Alex Callinicos are a joke. They are not even worthy of any sort of (serious) discussion.

    Alexa Callonkonkas

    March 5, 2018 at 10:37 pm

  56. An economy dependent on killing people is a very sick economy indeed. It benefits small cliques of rich people. But in the long run it damages the economy as a whole. As said before in this thread, Japan and West Germany benefited post 1945 from low military expenses. Now, they are losing that advantage.

    petrel41

    March 5, 2018 at 11:11 pm

  57. But petrel, if you think that is bad you are missing out the USSR. When that existed it sold weapons the Republicans, during the Spanish Civil War and allowed countries in the Iron curtain to supply arms to Arab dictatorships. How sick was that? To export death to these countries.

    Steven Johnston

    March 6, 2018 at 10:49 am

  58. Same goes for the gay community who are on side with Islam. In Islamic countries such as Iran gays are executed.

    Ayeshah

    March 6, 2018 at 2:30 pm

  59. Same goes for the gay community who are on side with Islam. In Islamic countries such as Iran gays are executed…

    Ayeshah

    March 6, 2018 at 2:30 pm

  60. Oh, and going back to the war in Afghanistan, there was nothing do with democracy either…https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War
    It was one of those wars where you wanted both sides to lose.

    Steven Johnston

    March 6, 2018 at 4:01 pm


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: