Tendance Coatesy

Left Socialist Blog

Paris Slaughters: Crimes Against All Humanity.

with 45 comments

Paris has been struck by a series of deadly attacks that left at least 120 people dead in six locations around the capital in the deadliest violence France has seen since World War II.

Follow FRANCE 24’s live blog for all the latest developments.

At least 120 people are reported to have died in a series of attacks that began Friday evening just after 10pm local time in six locations in and around Paris.

  • Police have reported that eight of the militants were killed, seven of them by using suicide vests
  • Around 200 people have been injured, 80 of them seriously
  • Paris prosecutor’s office warns that “accomplices” could still be on loose
  • President François Hollande has declared a state of emergency and ordered increased checks at the borders
  • Police have set up a special emergency number to call for help: 197.

map of attack sites

BBC news.

In simple words President Obama spoke for the world,

“It’s an attack not just on the people of France. But this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values we share.”

In France President François Hollande spoke of « acte de guerre » commis par « une armée terroriste »

Let us hope, for dear life, that we will not see a repeat of the comments made after the murders of our beloved comrades at Charlie Hebdo at the killings at the Hyper-Casher.

Like this:  The attacks in France are a blowback from intervention in the Muslim world, says Seumas Milne. 15th January 2015.

This how the most murderous assault began: Attacker in Paris concert hall shouted ‘Allahu akbar’, fired into crowd: witness.

The Islamic State, Daesh, has now brought its genocidal operation to Europe.

Allahu Akbar.

Anna Erelle, who had infiltrated the world of the jihadists, has described how the members of Daesh exulted in murdering the Kufur, the non-believers. They would slaughter until the world was “pure”. (Dans la peau d’une djihadiste 2015)

The Islamic Caliphate, Daesh, has created an exterminating machine.

Ruled, in its eyes, not by a Person, but by the Shadow of god, it is a totalitarian monster.

It is not by ignoring its existence that Daesh will be defeated.

This is the way of justice and righteousness: the heroines and heroes battling the genociders at this very moment: ‘Tyranny has gone’: Kurds and Yazidis celebrate recapture of Sinjar from Isis. Another account: Kurdistan Regional President Massoud Barzani said that only peshmerga forces joined the operation to liberate Shengal, clearly denying presence of other forces which include HPG, YJA-STAR, YBŞ, HPC and YPJ-Shengal.

 Update

Pierre Laurent leader of the Parti Communiste Français.

Notre pays vient de vivre l’un des pires événements de son histoire. Les attaques terroristes simultanées de la nuit dernière à Paris et à Saint-Denis, revendiquées par Daesh, faisant à cette heure 127 morts et 200 blessés, sont effroyables. La France est en deuil.

Au lendemain de ce carnage, nos premières pensées se tournent vers les victimes, leurs familles, leurs proches, les témoins et tous ceux dont la vie a été menacée. Pour tous, la douleur est immense. Chacun en France s’en sent profondément meurtri.
Nous saluons l’action des forces de l’ordre, des secours, des urgentistes et personnels de santé et des agents territoriaux dont la mobilisation a été exemplaire ainsi que la solidarité des habitants qui s’est immédiatement manifestée.
Moins d’un an après les attentats de janvier dernier, la République est frappée en son cœur.
Alors que l’État d’urgence vient d’être décrété par le gouvernement, le renforcement des moyens de police et de justice est un impératif. L’État doit trouver durablement les moyens adaptés pour garantir la sécurité de toutes et de tous.
J’appelle notre peuple à ne pas céder à la peur, à se rassembler pour la liberté, l’égalité et la fraternité, et pour la paix. Nous devons refuser les amalgames et les stigmatisations. Ensemble, nous devons rejeter fermement la haine et les racismes.
La France est touchée par la guerre et la déstabilisation qui minent le Proche et le Moyen-Orient. La lutte contre le terrorisme appelle une mobilisation redoublée et des solutions internationales.
Elle ne pourra triompher que dans la mobilisation pour un projet de société solidaire qui place au cœur de tous ses choix l’émancipation humaine, les valeurs de la République et la paix.
Le PCF, ses représentants et ses élus, seront de toutes les initiatives qui, dans les prochains jours, permettront à nos concitoyens de se rassembler pour faire face à cette épreuve et ouvrir un chemin d’espoir pour notre peuple.
Dans ce moment tragique, le PCF a interrompu toute activité de campagne électorale.

Here.

Responsibility claimed by Islamic State, just out:

Written by Andrew Coates

November 14, 2015 at 11:41 am

45 Responses

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  1. Some of the “left” should be ashamed of themselves already. See these disgusting tweets:

    http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/labour-advisor-and-gaza-activists-shame.html

    Not heard of Wesley Brown before.

    Howard Fuller

    November 14, 2015 at 11:59 am

  2. Neither have I but he deserves special attention.

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 12:05 pm

  3. There’s a suggestion that Wesley Brown is a fake account.

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 12:10 pm

  4. Just heard that rumour. Unable to confirm one way or the other. However some of the responses are very telling….

    Howard Fuller

    November 14, 2015 at 12:26 pm

  5. Why are “decents” so predictably tedious? There’s a horrendous massacre in Paris by an Islamist death cult, and all our “decents” can do is use it to score stupid points against “the left”. They have neither pride nor shame.

    Francis

    November 14, 2015 at 12:27 pm

  6. I have decided to err on the side of caution and re-write the post.

    Howard Fuller

    November 14, 2015 at 12:31 pm

  7. French leftist reaction, “”Dash has just claimed responsibility for yesterday evening’s Paris massacres. There were at least 128 deaths and 200 people injured. They were slaughtered like animals while sitting on café terraces, or attending a rock concert. Islamic-fascist terror has struck again. Those from the workers’ movement can only feel sick in the stomach at these acts. We give absolute solidarity to the victims and all those close to them.”

    Statement now in French, English (my trans), Italian and Russian.

    https://bataillesocialiste.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/massacres-de-paris-daesh-assassin/

    Now signed:
    Premiers signataires:

    Stéphane J., co-administrateur de La Bataille socialiste, militant de Solidarité Irak
    Fabienne M., collaboratrice de La Bataille socialiste
    Patrice L., militant syndical
    Zacharie L., militant libertaire et syndicaliste
    Andrew C., militant anglais, administrateur du blog Tendance Coatesy
    Alexei G., Praxis Research & Educational Center (Moscou)
    Nicolas D., militant de Solidarité Irak
    Sophie B., militante syndicale
    Mickaël R., contributeur de La Bataille socialiste
    Vincent P., militant politique et syndicaliste
    Pierre L., militant de Démocratie communiste
    David B., militant anglais de l’International Marxist-Humanist Organization
    Germinal P., militant politique
    Luddo A., syndicaliste
    Flaviano S., militant italien

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 12:44 pm

  8. The worrying thing in terms of French politics is how far Marine Le Pen is able to capitalise on this. She’ll be making one of her “statements” later today. We can be sure she will craft it for maximum impact.

    Francis

    November 14, 2015 at 12:48 pm

  9. Yes, there’s plenty already:

    Après l’épreuve, les vautours Samedi 14 Novembre 2015 à 12:39 Thibaut Pézerat
    Il aura fallu attendre peu de temps pour que les commentaires politiques les plus obscènes fassent leur apparition sur la toile.

    http://www.marianne.net/apres-epreuve-les-vautours-100238053.html

    The article mainly covers right-wing ranting against immigration and Muslims, but there’s also trferences to an extremely distasteful statement from the ‘left Nouveau Parti anticapitaliste which I chased up.

    Leurs guerres, nos morts: la barbarie impérialiste engendre celle du terrorisme

    http://www.npa2009.org/communique/leurs-guerres-nos-morts-la-barbarie-imperialiste-engendre-celle-du-terrorisme

    The Nouveau Parti anticapitaliste have translated it, obviously in haste.

    The cruelty of imperialist wars results in the cruelty of terrorism

    “Imperialist cruelty and Islamist cruelty feed each other. And do so to control oil supplies.

    In a pitiful intervention, Holland broke down and stammered some words on the Republic.He who plays the war leader and carries anenormous responsibility in this new tragedyasks for “confidence”. He decreed a state of emergency throughout France, consideringthat the answer was to trample onfundamental freedoms. He was immediately supported by Sarkozy. The political authorities can thus from now on ban public meetings and control the press.”

    It ends with this,

    “To put an end to terrorism, it is necessary to put an end to the imperialist wars that aim to perpetuate the plundering of the wealth ofthe peoples dominated by the multinationals,to force the withdrawal of the French troopsfrom all countries where they are present, in particular in Syria, in Iraq, in Africa.”

    http://www.npa2009.org/communique/statement-npa-cruelty-imperialist-wars-results-cruelty-terrorism

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 1:24 pm

  10. There’s also been a heck of a lot of gloating on Russian TV and from Russian politicians.

    Paul Canning (@pauloCanning)

    November 14, 2015 at 3:14 pm

  11. comment got eaten.

    Paul Canning (@pauloCanning)

    November 14, 2015 at 3:14 pm

  12. “Why are “decents” so predictably tedious? There’s a horrendous massacre in Paris by an Islamist death cult, and all our “decents” can do is use it to score stupid points against “the left”. They have neither pride nor shame.”

    It is because a fair section of the left make such inhuman pricks of themselves whenever there is a such an attack by blaming ‘the West’ and never the barbaric Islamist ideology which drives such attacks all around the world and against people of all ethnicities and religions.

    The left – especially that arsehole Corbyn – have been apologists for and friends of violent Islamists for years, and has drunk deeply of Islamist antisemitism and anti-westernism. If you don’t like that being drawn attention to, then the left should stop doing it.

    On the subject of scoring points, The intitial response of the scum in the STWC (untile recently Chair: Jeremy Corbyn) was to tweet that France had ‘reaped the whirlwind’ of it imperialism in the Middle East. It has now taken that sick tweet down. I wonder if it had one to explain how the Yazidis and Assyrians in Northern Syria and Iraq were ‘reaping the whirlwind’ of their behaviour. The ‘anti-war’ left can always find a reason why it is never the fault of the terrorists and always the fault of someone else.

    This is why Labour is fucked at the next election. You chose someone who shares your sick pro-Islamist, anti-Western, pro-Putin and antisemitic sympathies, but you will find that that has a limited purchase outside of your creepy far left circle. Next time take note: if you truly want to campaign against injustice, don’t pick a bunch of terrorist-supporting scumbags to lead that campaign. If you want to know why most people won’t touch Labour with a bargepole, it’s because of people like you, Francis.

    Lamia

    November 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm

  13. Tweet made after last night’s attacks –

    “I haven’t accused Israel of involvement. Still, Bibi is upset about the European settlement boycott. So who knows?” – Mary Hughes-Thompson (Co-Founder “Free Gaza Movement”).

    Tweet made after Charlie Hebdo attacks –

    “MOSSAD just hit the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo in a clumsy false flag designed to damage the accord between Palestine and France…” – Greta Berlin (Co-Founder “Free Gaza Movement”)

    Why are “anti-Zionists” so predictably tedious? There’s a horrendous massacre in Paris by an Islamist death cult, and all our “anti-Zionists” can do is use it to score stupid points and try to blame Israel. They have neither pride nor shame.

    http://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Palestinian-rights-activist-raises-possibility-Israel-behind-Paris-attacks-433010#article=6020MjAxRjRCNUUxNkFBQUM2RjFDMTFENUE2MjYzODY5Nzk=

    John R

    November 14, 2015 at 4:16 pm

  14. We will answer the StwC as well, there’s a list of things to say John and everybody else.

    This is what Daesh called Paris,

    ” The soldiers of the caliphate, may Allah give them strength and victory, targeted the capital of abominations and perversion, the one that carries the banner of the cross in Europe, Paris.”

    The STWC statement is more reasonable than one feared,

    “We wish to express our condemnation at the terrorist attacks in Paris on Friday. There can be absolutely no justification for the horrific shooting and bombing of very large numbers of innocent people, in concerts, bars and cafes. Our thoughts are with the victims and their families.

    Terrorism attributed to IS is growing around the world. The main victims of such attacks are the people of the countries wracked by wars. Bombings and shootings of these kinds are all too frequent in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Just this week, a major bombing in Lebanon killed dozens of people, although this was little reported in the west. The refugees now coming to Europe will be all too familiar with such attacks.

    The response of the western governments and other major powers has been for more war. President Hollande of France has talked of a ‘pitiless’ war against terrorism. The idea that bombing will end terrorism is refuted by the history of the last 14 years. It has already led to an increase in Islamophobia and to attacks on civil liberties which will likely target Muslims above all.

    The British government has been campaigning for a vote in parliament to be able to officially bomb Syria. There is absolutely no evidence that this will do anything but make the situation worse. We should remember that ISIS was created in Iraq, during the U.S. occupation there. The disastrous civil war in Libya followed the bombing of that country by the west, which began with a no fly zone. The only solution can lie in political and negotiated solutions.

    The urgent task is how we end these killings, defeat the reactionary force of ISIS and other similar groups, and begin to see the prospect of peace in the Middle East. This can only be done by the Iraqi, Syrian and other peoples of the region themselves. Western military intervention has not only killed or displaced millions, it has also contributed to the endless mutation of terrorist groups like IS while destroying the capacity of the people’s of the region to confront such organisations themselves.

    Defeating ISIS means firstly cutting its support from some of the most reactionary regimes in the region, including Saudi Arabia. Secondly it means not creating further grievances which help to fuel its support. That means rejecting the idea that bombing and intervention can make things better. We are told that we need to be ‘doing something’ in the face of these attacks. It is precisely because what we have been doing in the region that we face this threat.

    Stop the War works for a world without terrorism and imperialism, and will continue to campaign for a peaceful solution to the crises in the Middle East. ”

    http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php/news/stop-the-war-statement-condemns-the-terrorist-atrocity-in-paris-on-13-november-2015

    Will check Paul…

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 5:20 pm

  15. Good statement from Jeremy Corbyn,

    “Today, all our thoughts and sympathy are with the people of Paris.

    “What took place in the French capital yesterday was horrific and immoral.

    “We stand in solidarity with the people of France – as with all victims of terror and violence.

    “I have cancelled my engagements today to hold discussions on events in France with shadow cabinet colleagues and be briefed by Downing Street security officials.

    “It’s vital at a time of such tragedy and outrage not to be drawn into responses which feed a cycle of violence and hatred.

    “We are proud to live in a multicultural and multi-faith society, and we stand for the unity of all communities.”

    http://labourlist.org/2015/11/jeremy-corbyn-this-is-an-attack-on-all-of-us/

    Andrew Coates

    November 14, 2015 at 5:41 pm

  16. I do hope this wretched statement from the ‘New Anti-Capitalist Party’ of France does not represent the position of the USFI (even though its been published in the USFI’s mag ‘International Viewpoint): http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article4286

    Jim Denham

    November 14, 2015 at 6:26 pm

  17. Lamia – you always work yourself up to a crescendo. Do you type one-handed?

    Francis

    November 14, 2015 at 6:45 pm

  18. Fuck off Francis, you dreary far left turd.

    Lamia

    November 14, 2015 at 7:33 pm

  19. Tendance Coatsy is back into its usual islamaphobic rage, I see. 43 brown people died in South Beirut the day before but no bandwagon for this so its irrelevant by your standards. No attempt whatsoever at working out what drives this, just grist for the western politicians who want to use it for further war-mongering, which will recruit further tranches of terrorists and cause more atrocities like this. And you quote them approvingly! The circular process of this War on Terror is safe in your hands and anyone who objects, like me, is to be vilified in some abusive soundbite, of course. ‘Caliphate John’ is your usual mode of debating the issues. Playground stuff!

    John Tummon

    November 14, 2015 at 8:04 pm

  20. closer to the truth

    dean

    November 14, 2015 at 8:08 pm

  21. Oh dear, Lamia’s back in his usual childish mode, calling people rude names from behind his silly pseudonym. What would you like to be when/if you grow up?

    Francis

    November 14, 2015 at 8:23 pm

  22. For the adults here, the political fallout also looks very worrying. Marine Le Pen was doing her “resolute but reasonable” act this afternoon, capitalising on the massacre to call for border controls and all that. And if it does turn out that one of the attackers did come over as a “refugee” from Syria, the mood of sympathy across Europe is likely to be severely dented. Which is just what ISIS wants, of course.

    Francis

    November 14, 2015 at 8:35 pm

  23. people make the mistake of assuming the daesh scum have ‘normal’ temporal, political goals. daesh is an apocalyptic, millenarian cult (in the same vein as the ‘rapture ready’ xtians) — every barbarous spectacle is calculated as a means to hasten their nutty end-times narrative where they fight the last battle against the ‘armies of rome’. as kurdish and allied comrades continue to liberate the occupied territories in syria and iraq, daesh leaders may become increasingly desperate as they feel the ‘apocalytic moment’ slipping away.

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    November 14, 2015 at 9:24 pm

  24. Tummon: are you the creature who moved a resolution to the effect that ISIS must be understood and not attacked? If so, calling you ‘Caliphate John’ is the least of it: I’d call you a pro-fascist enemy of the working class who deserves proletarian justice.

    Jim Denham

    November 14, 2015 at 11:15 pm

  25. […] Source: Paris Slaughters: Crimes Against All Humanity. […]

  26. Not really sure why people on the “last of the summer wine” left get so worked up about “The Decents”. Harry’s Place,for example, has many utterly appalling BTL comments on immigration, racism etc. but they are more often than not vigorously challenged – and the site tends to retain a liberal(ish) stance ATL. A blog such as Socialist Unity does not even allow an open comment policy and is dominated ATL and BTL by a bunch of weird nostalgists for dead Russian totalitarians. WTF is the attraction of the dead russian thing? Completely escapes me!!!

    alex ross

    November 15, 2015 at 3:05 am

  27. Good question, Alex. There are at least three and maybe four Trotskyists on this thread – I hope one of them will be able to explain their “dead Russian thing” (leaving aside the moot point of whether and how far Trotsky can be counted as Russian).

    Francis

    November 15, 2015 at 12:27 pm

  28. We hear that the Cambridge branch of the miniscule Communist Party of Britain is at this moment cracking because one of their leading figures got fed up with the Soviet nostalgia.

    Strangely Trotskyists never seem to tire of their interest and support for Trotsky – an admiration I finally lost in my early twenties (which was never really there even when I was in the IMG – coming as I do from a left family which goes back long enough to know something about what he really was) after reading his apology for forced labour and ruthless systematic dictatorship in Terrorism and Communism.

    But Francis and Alex, this is not true of the Trotskyist movement as a whole.

    Amongst French people from that background were individuals like Pierre Naville (okay you haven’t heard of him, but he was really really important), a fine democratic socialist, and many more today, who are democrats and part of the mainstream left.

    Andrew Coates

    November 15, 2015 at 12:31 pm

  29. These are a mixture of people from a Trotskyist, ‘centrist’, self-management, leftist background.

    Their statement knocks the socks off the NPA allaboutoil rant,

    “Statement by Ensemble, member of the Left Front (France) after the November 13 terrorist attacks

    Against fear : solidarity !

    Today is a time for mourning.

    The murderous terrorist attacks which took place on Friday 13 November have caused numerous victims. They are a terrible tragedy. Our compassion and solidarity go to all who have been affected, to the victims’ families and everyone close to them.

    These terrorist attacks follow those of last January in Paris against Charlie Hebdo and the Hypercasher supermarket, and those against the Bardo Museum and in Sousse in Tunisia. They are an echo of the tragedies which have struck the Middle East, in the Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Turkey and Palestine and elsewhere. The terrorist groups behind them are inspired and organised by the Islamic State, an organisation driven by a totalitarian ideology which cloaks itself in religion in order to trigger a war between different peoples.

    These fanatical political groups have found a fertile terrain in Iraq and Syria, with the bloody war waged against his own people by Bachar El Assad, and the terrible consequences of the US intervention in Iraq. They find an audience amongst desperate people who are then pressed into service and caught in a deadly sectarian logic.

    We face a challenge.

    The answers will not be found in any so-called ‘national unity’, nor in a race to remove civil liberties. Measures are needed to guarantee the safety of the population, but we oppose a state of emergency which prevents meetings, rallies and demonstrations, and allows individual freedoms to be eroded.

    More than ever, we must resist blaming any section of the population for actions over which they have no control, and oppose all racist and islamophobic reactions, as well as conspiracy theories and antisemitic ideas which these attacks are intended to encourage.

    We call for support for the peoples of Syria, Iraq, the Lebanon, Palestine, Turkey, and Kurdistan in their struggle for their freedoms and democratic rights.

    Fear must not prevail over the movement of citizens. We call for a united and popular movement for solidarity, a welcome for migrants and refugees, social justice and democracy.

    http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article36361

    Original here: https://www.ensemble-fdg.org/content/contre-la-peur-la-solidarite

    Andrew Coates

    November 15, 2015 at 12:38 pm

  30. What was that Caliphate John?

    Have you no shame.

    I suppose you’re too addled from reading Alastair Crooke’s ramblings, starting with Resistance: The Essence of the Islamist Revolution.

    And this:

    “Islamists see all too clearly the limitations to the Cartesian process of thinking: its internalisation of the moral order within the ‘self’; its displacement of any wider external ‘order’, with Cartesian ‘reason’ emerging as the power to ‘make’ rational ‘order’ according to correct procedural standards; and the notion of the vantage point of ‘I think’ somehow placing the mind and ‘self’ outside the world about us – detaching us from both things and feelings.

    Descartes separated the material world of ‘real’ things – which could be touched, tasted, felt or viewed, and were to be explained and classified through scientific rationality – from the world of ‘ideas’ associated with fantasy, superstition, magic and illusion. There was ‘reality’ and, separate to it, the make-believe and illusionary figments of human thinking unrestrained by reality. This narrow duality formed the stepping stone to modern notions of the western ‘self’ and individualism in its many variants.

    This duality also gave the west its concept of the ‘rational order’ – a moral order – that is ‘made’ by humans through the exercise of internal human will and action. Until this time, most humans held to a ‘rational’ and moral order to the world about us that was external to ourselves. This order was to be ‘discerned’ from a contemplation of the signs in nature and within us.

    The Islamist revolution, therefore, is much more than politics. It is an attempt to shape a new consciousness – to escape from, and challenge, the most far-reaching pre-suppositions of our time. It draws on the intellectual tradition of Islam to offer a radically different understanding of the human being, and to escape from the hegemony and rigidity of Cartesian literalism. It is a journey of recovery of insights from that ‘other history of Being’, as the French philosopher Henri Corbin termed it, that is far from over. ”

    There’s more here, from Red Pepper http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Essay-Red-Shi-ism-Iran-and-the/

    Andrew Coates

    November 15, 2015 at 1:16 pm

  31. I see very little difference morally between the idiots on the left who hitch themselves to right wing bandwagons like Putin, Assad and Islamist terror and the idiots on the right like Lamia who use terrorist attacks like this to justify their petty hatreds of the other, be it immigrants, Muslamics or some nebulous “TEH LEFTS” who they can blame anything and everything on.

    Makhno

    November 15, 2015 at 2:14 pm

  32. Francis: dead people (including some dead Russians) have a lot to teach those of us willing to learn.

    For instance:

    Lenin, the great Marxist advocate of revolutionary struggle against imperialism, long ago drew a dividing line between that socialist struggle and reactionary movements such as (in his day) “pan-Islamism” [in our day, Islamism]: “Imperialism is as much our mortal enemy as is capitalism. That is so. No Marxist will forget, however, that capitalism is progressive compared with feudalism, and that imperialism is progressive compared with pre-monopoly capitalism. Hence, it is not every struggle against imperialism that we should support. We will not support a struggle of the reactionary classes against imperialism.”

    Jim Denham

    November 15, 2015 at 8:38 pm

  33. Who are you calling ‘totalitarian’? I like all sorts of dead people, not only russians.

    Don’t know why people get worked up about Stalinist Unity. Nationalists (Stalinist Unity IS nationalist) collect all sorts of unpleasant cranks and weirdos. If it wasn’t for the interfubes, you wouldn’t know any of those SU bods/hangers-on existed. Ignore them is the best policy and stop pissing your life away reading shite written by twats on t’internet.

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    November 15, 2015 at 8:44 pm

  34. As you probably realise, Jim, I read a lot of dead Russians. But doing that has convinced me not to stick the suffix “-ist” after any of their names and apply it to myself – not even the ones for whom I feel most sympathy, or whose insights I often find useful. The same goes for Germans, for that matter.

    Francis

    November 15, 2015 at 10:44 pm

  35. I know it is futile to reason with the likes of “Makhno” but: what is “right-wing” about acknowledging the horrors of events such as this, or the repressive nature of Putin’s regime?

    Or are you the sort of Stalinist who hates popular culture so much that you believe French people who choose to go to heavy metal gigs rather than Gainsbourg & Brel tribute shows, or Russians who make comparable choices, bring these attacks or general governmental repression and fear on themselves?

    I used to be precisely that type – a decade ago, I probably *would* have said “they deserved it for betraying their European cultural inheritance”, so I can understand why others still are.

    februarycallendar

    November 15, 2015 at 11:42 pm

  36. I imagine, though I am only guessing, that Daesh does not like Heavy Metal.

    Andrew Coates

    November 16, 2015 at 6:01 pm

  37. I know it’s futile to expect posters like “februarycallendar” to actually read the comment they’re replying to before having a good rant, but what part of my phrase “the idiots on the left who hitch themselves to right wing bandwagons like Putin, Assad and Islamist terror” did your google translate turn to me saying it was “right wing” to acknowledge “the horrors of events such as this, or the repressive nature of Putin’s regime?”

    And is “they deserved it for betraying their European cultural inheritance” a direct quote from me? Have I been sleep posting, or something? I happily betray my European cultural inheritance every day. Although metal, originating as it did in the Midlands, is very much part of European cultural inheritance. Just ask Ozzy.

    I bloody love metal, as it goes. Although being a typical muso I prefer Josh Homme’s earlier work:

    \m/(><)\m/

    Makhno

    November 16, 2015 at 7:17 pm

  38. I should add that in my view pseudo-intellectual divots like Caliphate John, by cheerleading for ultra-nationalist, chauvinist imperialists like Putin and ultra-violent, antediluvian religious extremists such as Daesh, more or less abrogate any right to claim to be on the left, being more suited to red/brown “third positionism”.

    With that in mind, I can also find idiotically generalised statements such as “The left – especially that arsehole Corbyn – have been apologists for and friends of violent Islamists for years, and has drunk deeply of Islamist antisemitism and anti-westernism” equally asinine, and symptomatic of the right’s desperation to make political capital out of this atrocity.

    Makhno

    November 16, 2015 at 7:50 pm

  39. Eagles of Death Metal aren’t metal, turns out.

    Wikipedia has them down as:

    Garage rock[1] blues rock[2][3][4] desert rock[5] rockabilly

    Paul Canning (@pauloCanning)

    November 16, 2015 at 11:14 pm

  40. But desert rock is a term interchangeable with stoner rock, which is stylistically similar with sludge metal. And the early metal bands such as Deep Purple and Sabbath were basically playing a form of heavy, psychedelic blues rock.

    Seriously, the amount of divergence and hatred that exists between metal fans with regard to what constitutes true metal would give even the most split riven Marxist-Lenist groupuscule the bends.

    This can be seen in the concept of “False Metal”, where the material, ideological and institutional processes in hard rock society mislead members of the metalariat and other musical actors to act against their best listening interests.

    Makhno

    November 16, 2015 at 11:38 pm

  41. All I remember on the subject were some happy days with a big name Heavy Metal Group in a large country house and their supply of herbal substances and booze.

    Not that I remember much of that either.

    Andrew Coates

    November 17, 2015 at 1:23 pm

  42. Makhno … I must apologise for having misunderstood your post.

    I wrongly thought you were saying that *opposing*, or “demonising”, Putin, Assad and Islamist terrorism was a “right-wing bandwagon”. I understand now that you were (rightly) saying that these people are objectively right-wing themselves and that *supporting* them is such a bandwagon which the Left should resist.

    The bit about “betraying European cultural heritage” isn’t something I thought *you* had ever thought, it’s what I would have thought ten years ago, when I was (arguably) an Islamist sympathiser and fellow traveller. It was my own former position, not yours.

    I will say, though, that quite a few Leftist rock & metal fans are objectively very right-wing indeed when it comes to the assessment of hip-hop and its cultural impact and legacy in Britain. But I recognise that I got you completely wrong, and I hope you will accept my mea culpa.

    februarycallendar

    November 17, 2015 at 6:00 pm

  43. Ah, de nada. We’ve all got the wrong end of the internet stick at some point or other.

    On the other subject you raised, I’m probably more into hip-hop than I am rock, if I had to choose. Although I think you have a good point. I can remember a few of my acquaintances who would consider themselves very right-on tying themselves in knots of sophistry trying to justify their opposition to Jayzee playing Glastonbury. That said, there’s also a lot of people who are really into both. Although rap-metal is an abomination. Think Limp Bizkit. Or rather don’t.

    Makhno

    November 17, 2015 at 8:24 pm

  44. The bit about the origins of metal is correct as well; it was very much a response to a particular kind of working-class experience, and it was a challenge to a lot of things – to conventional Toryism as it was then (entirely different from how it is now), but also to aspects of the hippie culture (it would very much have held the view that that culture was, essentially, shire Toryism in slightly altered clothes) and to the more top-down aspects of the Old Labour culture of the heavy-industrial environments (now utterly lost and changed beyond recall) in which it was created. I have no doubt that Dominic Sandbrook, and others like him, would want to use those origins for their own purposes – that very specific combination of pop culture and Tory nationalism which is wholly specific to and characteristic of the last decade and, through discrediting Blairism, did much to empower Corbyn – but that doesn’t mean the Old Left were right.

    februarycallendar

    November 17, 2015 at 9:13 pm

  45. The above from me was a crosspost, despite the timings. Thanks for the reply, Makhno.

    I tend to think that the resurgence of indie rock round about the mid-2000s had a lot to do with Blairites wanting and needing “their own kind” in a dominant pop-cultural position; certainly, for a lot of those people, the big UKG crossover in 2000 was the moment their empathy slipped.

    februarycallendar

    November 17, 2015 at 9:15 pm


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