Tendance Coatesy

Left Socialist Blog

Mirror Poll Shows Support for Islamic State Amongst British Muslims.

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  1. Reblogged this on Liberphile and commented:

    But don’t worry; it’s nothing to do with Islam.

    AJ Liberphile

    July 7, 2015 at 6:25 pm

  2. “However other figures state that there are roughly 2,800 million Muslims in the UK”

    Er, I think you mean 2.8 million Muslims, Andrew.

    John R

    July 7, 2015 at 7:55 pm

  3. Its also hard to believe that people support Israel especially “when the proof of these atrocities is available at the touch of button.”


    July 7, 2015 at 9:15 pm

  4. I think the even geographical spread is significant http://hurryupharry.org/2015/07/07/that-isis-poll-story-pulled-from-the-express/


    July 7, 2015 at 10:03 pm

  5. Comrade, you may want to do something about the nazi upthread (don’t mean the latest manifestation of the village idiot either).

  6. I was trying to avoid 7/7 stuff much today but saw a great interview on Aussie TV with Gill Hicks, whose legs were blown off http://t.co/adBDhlH1mX

    You can watch and figure it out for yourself but to prod into watching I mention that the interviewer had (I think ‘had’) to say ‘did we cause this’ and Hicks sidesteps to answer.And she does it so graciously.

    I wonder how I would react. I wonder if all the politics we talk about would mean anything or everything if my legs were blown off.

    This is how any decent human – conservative or leftie – would hear someone like her: I wonder.

    I also dug up some post 7/7 polls and, clearly, there is a group of Brits in favour of blowing up Gill Hicks to make some point.

    We had the same traitorous problem in the 30s and 40s. Brown and red. Lord Haw Haw (Russell Brand) and Lord Halifax (Peter Hitchens/Simon Jenkins) and the fing communists (same) in 1941. You can add your own names to the analogy. We all know how the brown behaved, the red history has been systematically buried, like the Polish at Katyn.

    We have been here before. Look how some behaved during the Battle of Britain. It is history repeating.

    ‘Traitorous?’ Traitorous to humanity, beholden to ideology.

    ISIS support needs to be rooted out because it is fascism. It is completely unacceptable for wavering on this.

    Paul Canning

    July 8, 2015 at 1:56 am

  7. there were gayz in the fascist movement too. IS is Fascism, which is what Assad was saying all the time. Support Assad!

    get the truth about katyn:


    July 8, 2015 at 2:26 am

  8. Oh FFS

  9. […] Source: Mirror Poll Shows Support for Islamic State Amongst British Muslims. […]

  10. Corrected – posted late in the Ipswich library day!

    I think regardless of all the qualifications we can make this does show a problem.

    Some liberals and leftists try to gloss over the reactionary constituency amongst British Muslims by calling them “conservatives” when they are clearly far to the right.

    The main problem I would say is that the same liberals and leftists try to defend these people rather than working with our natural allies, secularists from a Muslim background, including those who have their own faith.

    As it says in Coatesim (Collected works)<

    " French secularism originates in four sources. The first came from ‘Galician’ Catholics who opposed the ultramontagne power of the Pope over their own affairs, and, as the century progressed from Catholics who became attached to republican ideals. The second was amongst liberal Protestants, who had obvious (and blood-stained) reasons to distrust the power of the official Church. A third were desists, who wanted religion, illuminated by science, to be free from the doctrinal control of Papal Curia.

    Only in the fourth category, the “libres penseurs”, can we find those with some debt to Hébert. The early workers’ movement owed a debt to Christian belief, particularly to Lamenais’ Paroles d’un croyant (1834), which rooted Christianity in democracy and social causes (in many respects more advanced than British ‘Christian socialism’ and still worth reading). But as the century progressed anti-clericalism spread amongst the socialists as well as amongst those who would become the so-called ‘Radical Socialist’ party (the word ‘radical’ comes from the British ‘radicals’ like John Stuart Mill). Many of the popular classes simply abandoned religion. "

    We should be building this kind of alliance, not giving in to those who make apologies for Islamism, genocidal or moderate.

    Andrew Coates

    July 8, 2015 at 1:39 pm

  11. I do not support Israel’s actions in Gaza, as the Tendance very clearly posted at the time.

    Andrew Coates

    July 8, 2015 at 1:43 pm

  12. You’re correct, Andrew, that whatever the provenance and accuracy (or otherwise) of this particular poll and the coverage it has been given, there is a real problem within “mainstream” Islam and Muslim communities in the IK (and, presumably, throughout Europe) and that the left (and, indeed, most bourgeois politicians) shy away from: that ultra-reactionary, misogynist, anti-Semitic, homophobic and anti-“Kaffir” thinking is commonplace, preached in Mosques and even schools. The standard leftist/Guardianista refusal to accept the essential reality of the ‘Trojan Horse’ allegations is but one recent example. Worse still, this wilful blindness on the part of much of the “left” is a betrayal of secularists, women, gays and democrats within the Muslim “community” and from a Muslim background. The SWP paved the way in this scabbing in the aftermath of 9/11, but much of the Guardianista/liberal-left has followed suite and this capitulation and betrayal has now become left-wing “common sense.”

    Jim Denham

    July 8, 2015 at 1:54 pm

  13. Absolutely, and it doesn’t take long to come into contract with “anti-Kufur” feeling either.

    The fact that there are brilliant comrades – Iranian exiles, North Africans, Kurdish, Turkish, other people from ‘Muslim’ countries – who are resolutely secular and democratic seems to pass some (we hope, declining) sections of the UK left by.

    Andrew Coates

    July 8, 2015 at 2:30 pm

  14. I commented elsewhere that the apparently higher level of ISIS sympathy in Scotland might be an extreme manifestation of the “anti-imperialist” tendencies within the Scottish independence movement.

    In terms of support from other areas with a relatively small Muslim population, I think it’s probable that what sympathy ISIS gets in non-metropolitan southern England would come, indeed, from Peter Hitchens/Simon Jenkins types, who hate modern popular culture so much that they will back *anything* against it.


    July 8, 2015 at 4:01 pm

  15. Here is the post 7/7 poll I mentioned http://www.populus.co.uk/Poll/Muslim-77-Poll-/

    Paul Canning

    July 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm

  16. Some people are just shameless. I have known many lefties who have tried to tell me that Iran does not execute gays, that it is all a Western plot to make Iran look bad. All the while knowing full well that I have worked with numerous gay people fleeing the threat of execution from the Ayatollahs!

    Paul Canning

    July 8, 2015 at 4:20 pm

  17. “We should be building this kind of alliance, not giving in to those who make apologies for Islamism, genocidal or moderate.” – Andrew

    Sheikh Raed Salah (Islamist Movement leader in Israel/Palestine) said this (Oct 2001) –

    “A suitable way was found to warn the 4,000 Jews who work every day at the Twin Towers to be absent from their work on September 11, 2001, and this is really what happened! Were 4,000 Jewish clerks absent [from their jobs] by chance, or was there another reason? At the same time, no such warning reached the 2,000 Muslims who worked every day in the Twin Towers, and therefore there were hundreds of Muslim victims.”

    He said this in June 2011-

    “We have never allowed ourselves, and listen well, we have never allowed ourselves to knead the bread for the breaking of the fast during the blessed month of Ramadan with the blood of children. And if someone wants a wider explanation, you should ask what used to happen to some of the children of Europe, whose blood would be mixed in the dough of the holy bread. God Almighty, is this religion? Is this what God wants? God will confront you for what you are doing”.

    Also, in Israel/Palestine, a leader of Hamas was thus quoted –

    Ismail Haniyeh, (head of the Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip) said about the killing of Bin Laden, “We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior. We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs.” (May 2011)

    And as is well known, the Hamas Charter contains allegations that there is an organised Jewish conspiracy (the Protocols of Zion) to take over the world.

    Jeremy Corbyn is the “Left” candidate for the Labour leadership. He is also a well-known supporter of both Sheikh Raed Salah and Hamas (his “friends”). To my knowledge, in line with the “anti-imperialist” Far Left, he has never made any public criticism of the Islamist movements Salah and Hamas represent. These groups see Corbyn as their unconditional, uncritical ally.

    So, why is Corbyn being given a free pass? The only reason given by many is his much-mooted “anti-austerity” political viewpoints. In other words, his alliance with open Islamist anti-semites is ignored for the duration of his campaign.

    Sorry, folks but the likes of Corbyn are part of the problem not the solution. Downplaying and/or ignoring his alliances with open anti-semites does the left and Labour no good at all.

    John R

    July 8, 2015 at 5:06 pm

  18. so anti imperialism sentiment is not allowed, because Iran allegedly executed gays. It is just a western plot which is obsessed with promoting lgbt as its main issue.

    the gays are not that important, anti imperialist solidarity is more important frankly.

    i don’t think gayz are executed in Iran anyway, only convicted paedophiles.


    July 8, 2015 at 7:02 pm

  19. Scotland (well Glasgae actually) still has substantial numbers of Tankies running around in the wild and everything’s a ‘conspiracy’ with them. Combine that with catholicism and you can get something extremely (and shockingly) toxic. Mind you, their ‘proddie’ oppos are even worse.

  20. “Xavier” is a sick fuck who would be executed in the interests of moral hygiene if I ever had a say in the matter under socialism.


    July 8, 2015 at 11:41 pm

  21. @John R Can we just have Corbyn grilled about this? Once? And not forgetting Ukraine. At a ‘hustings’. Is that too much to ask for?

  22. shaking fist at effin wordpress agin

  23. It’s obvious that “Xavier” is a bot. As I keep saying, I’d be surprised if “he” actually believes a word of it, or even a word of ‘The Execution of Paul Gadd’ (yes, I know it wasn’t called that, but that’s what I call him).

    I think a big part of the reason why there are more tankies in Scotland (or at least Glasgow, which did of course vote Yes) is that pop and rock music, and especially the forms of the black Atlantic, never became a central part of Left identity in Scotland in the way they did in England, and so the need and impetus to break from the Soviet Union (i.e. that it no longer counted as “Left” because it suppressed these things) wasn’t there in the same way. It’s obvious why a culture where pop and rock music did not become totems of Leftism would continue to harbour more Soviet loyalists and apologists.

    (The writer of the Mark Duggan-sceptic piece linked to in another thread would no doubt believe that Leftist support for, say, grime is a negative result of “liberal influence on socialist thought”; I can bet he’s a rock fan and would deny that plenty of trade unionists – as he is – once said the same about Leftist support for rock music. It always suits people like that to pretend that it was only Bufton Tufton types who took an anti-rock stance; acknowledging that it was a lot more complex than that makes their own arguments against hip-hop and its tributaries seem subjective rather than objective, and therefore weakens their authority.)


    July 9, 2015 at 4:43 am

  24. OK – so let’s imagine for a moment that this poll accurately reflects opinion within Britain and that the Daily Express spin on its significance is also accurate.

    Leaving aside the moralising, hand-wringing and rather predictable attacks on the real and imagined sins of the rest of the left, what would you propose should actually be *done* about such a situation? Please be explicit – you don’t need to be shy or coy… I’ve just returned from a holiday in Armenia, where people express their views on Islam and caliphates with admirable frankness, and have recast their own state’s demography in accordance with those views over the last 25 years.


    July 9, 2015 at 8:14 pm

  25. Paul, there’s a Labour leadership hustings organised by various Jewish groups which will be chaired by Johnathan Freedland of the Guardian on July 20.

    I’m sure some of the issues I’ve mentioned here will come up.


    John R

    July 9, 2015 at 8:53 pm

  26. Feb, now that you mention Tankies and music, have you seen the JL Godard film One Plus One aka Sympathy for the Devil?

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