Tendance Coatesy

Left Socialist Blog

Jazz Hands Scandal Hits and Splits NUS.

with 97 comments

 Jazz Hands Avoid Anxiety.

The NUS Asked Its Student Delegates To Use Jazz Hands Instead Of Clapping To Avoid Triggering Anxiety.

The Huffington Post UK | Lucy Sherriff

The National Union of Students was the subject of ridicule on Tuesday after telling its delegates to use jazz hands instead of clapping in order to avoid triggering anxiety.

A spokesperson for the NUS justified the decision saying: “The request was made by some delegates attending the conference. We strive to make NUS events accessible and enjoyable for all, so each request is considered.”

However this didn’t stop numerous people from poking fun at the union, with some wondering whether the Twitter account was a spoof.

Nona Buckley-Irvine, general secretary at the London School of Economics Students’ Union, told Newsbeat: “Jazz hands are used  throughout NUS in place of clapping as a way to show appreciation of someone’s point without interrupting or causing disturbance, as it can create anxiety.

“I’m relatively new to this and it did feel odd at first, but once you’ve used jazz hands a couple of times it becomes a genuinely nice way to show solidarity with a point and it does add to creating a more inclusive atmosphere.”

This immediately caused a split.

@nuswomcam please can we ask people to stop clapping but do feminist jazz hands? it’s triggering some peoples’ anxiety. thank you!

Jazz Hands or Feminist Jazz Hands, that this is the major issue inside the NUS women’s conference.

Then there was this,

The tweets began receiving responses ridiculing the request.

@JLat55 tweeted: “Open palms can be triggering. Well, so can closed ones… you should just ban any outward expression of approval.”

@BookGeek_T tweeted: “@nuswomcam @Little_G2 hi, jazz hands can be triggering because of the quick movement of the hands. I vote blinking rapidly instead. Thanks”

Nona Buckley-Irvine, General Secretary at the London School of Economics Students’ Union, said: “Jazz hands are used throughout NUS in place of clapping as a way to show appreciation of someone’s point without interrupting or causing disturbance, as it can create anxiety.

“I’m relatively new to this and it did feel odd at first, but once you’ve used jazz hands a couple of times it becomes a genuinely nice way to show solidarity with a point and it does add to creating a more inclusive atmosphere.”

LSE SU women’s officer Gee Linford-Grayson added: “As someone who is new to the NUS conference culture it surprised me at first, but actually within a few rounds of jazz hands applause it began to make a lot of sense, as loud clapping and whooping can be intimidating and distracting when you’re speaking on stage.

“Plus who doesn’t like jazz hands?!”

The annual event decides the female issues for the NUS to campaign on, and elects the campaign’s representatives.

An NUS spokesperson said: “The request was made by some delegates attending the conference.

“We strive to make NUS events accessible and enjoyable for all, so each request is considered.”

Follow us: @SentinelStaffs on Twitter | sentinelstaffs on Facebook.

More seriously there is this in the background of ‘Jazz Hands’.

These points by Yassamine Mather in the Weekly Worker last year are perhaps the most relevant: jazz hands are just part of a wider agenda.

Academic debates

Safe spaces or echo chambers? According to Wikipedia, an echo chamber in the media is “a situation in which information, ideas or beliefs are amplified or reinforced by transmission and repetition inside an ‘enclosed’ system, where different or competing views are censored or disallowed”. Others have described echo chambers as spaces where people repeat and agree with certain ideas, congratulating each other rather than discussing new, conflicting ideas.

In an echo chamber nobody learns anything new or expands their perspectives. Similarly if women, blacks or LGBTQ activists refuse to confront their opponents, ‘safe spaces’ risk becoming ‘echo chambers’. A 1998 study by Robert Boostrom questions the ‘safety’ aspect of ‘safe spaces’ in universities as counterposed to the mission of higher education to promote critical thinking. If critical thinking is desirable in higher education, it is essential in a political organisation of the left.

One of the most informative studies about ‘safe spaces’ in universities has been carried out by Betty J Barret, published in the Canadian Journal for the Scholarship of Teaching and Learning. Under the title, ‘Is safety dangerous?’2, Barret points out a number of theoretical criticisms relating to the construction of educational communities as safe spaces for students, in support of her claim that they may indeed be counterproductive to student learning. She refers to an empirical study by Holley and Steiner (2005), which found that students overwhelmingly “placed the responsibility for the creation of safety on instructors, listing 387 instructor characteristics that defined safe space. Indeed, the number-one characteristic that students reported as defining a safe learning environment was that the instructor was perceived by students to be non-judgmental and/or unbiased.”

As you know, the BBC makes a very similar claim. In a class society faced with many contradictions, how will we identify these figures, so essential to the maintenance of safe spaces, these responsible adults who will remain “unbiased”? How can we guarantee against abuses of power by such figures themselves in the proposed ‘safe space’?

With Jazz hands the position worsens:  debate is reduced to a silent echo chamber.


FaceBook Jazz Hands…

Written by Andrew Coates

March 25, 2015 at 12:18 pm

97 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. Is it April Fools Day? I see you intimidating clapping and raise you racist jazz hands.

    Sue R

    March 25, 2015 at 12:38 pm

  2. No, sadly they got there before us.

    There was a Twitter and Facebook storm about this yesterday afternoon.

    Andrew Coates

    March 25, 2015 at 12:43 pm

  3. To me, this is even funnier https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA4BC6aUsAAJ7C5.png

    Wondering just how they plan to ‘work to eradicate the appropriation of black women by white gay men’.

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 1:03 pm

  4. It may be part of the ‘equal opportunities’ programme. Muslims are forbidden from clapping, it is considered ‘kafar’ and is associated with the ‘jaahiliyyah’ (time of ignorance before Mohammed). The local pagans of Mecca used to worship their idols by clapping and whistling, according to the Koran. Therefore, it is harem (forbidden). Women can clap if the iman makes a mistake in a prayer, they are allowed to clap to draw attention to it. This makes it doubly impermissible for men, as it is a womanly thing to do. On occasions where one wishes to show approval of something, then one may raise ones hands, or shout ‘allah akbar’. (Infor on Islam OnLine).

    Sue R

    March 25, 2015 at 1:16 pm

  5. American Cultural imperialism (if not political cultural imperialism) in fact,

    The bit of the motion (Part 4 of Conference Believes), cites from Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture by Sierra Mannie (Time Magazine).


    It fails to add this following bit, “I suppose there’s some thrill in this “rolling with the homies” philosophy some adopt, white people are not racially oppressed in the United States of America.

    White people are not racially oppressed in the United States of America.

    White people are not racially oppressed in the United States of America.”

    Most NUS students are not citizens of the United States of America,

    NUS students are not citizens of the United States of America…

    If anybody thinks they can simply take what a writer for the bland and terminally boring US Magazine Time says and apply it to the UK, and Europe more widely, then they have some serious issues with autonomy, intersectionality, and gender power construction.

    Andrew Coates

    March 25, 2015 at 1:23 pm

  6. Surely this Jazz Hands article should be over at Shiraz Socialist?

    Anyway, I’ll ask my student daughter tonight if the next conference is at Ronnie Scott’s.

    John R

    March 25, 2015 at 1:23 pm

  7. They also think that using the word ‘sisters’ is exclusionary https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA7rIZdWsAAL3H3.png

    These SJW idiots are an absolute gift to the Right.

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 1:31 pm

  8. Andrew: what makes this especially laughable is precisely that this SJW nonsense is almost entirely imported from US campuses and academe. In other words: American Cultural imperialism ! You could probably do a word comparision exercise between their motions and the contents of Salon, which is command centre for the SJWs.

    If they want to change people daftly aping others, particularly those lifting from black American culture, then make like Ali G! Make them ridiculous!

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 1:42 pm

  9. According to well-informed sources the same Conference refused to call for anything criticising ISIS – the genociders, torturers and slavers – on the grounds that this might be “Islamophobic.”

    Andrew Coates

    March 25, 2015 at 1:49 pm

  10. Helen Lewis in the New Statesman says that the no platforming of Bindel was reaffirmed in part because Bindel doesn’t like the Niqab … as don’t many Muslim women. I wouldn’t be surprised if they refused ISIS criticism – because they consistently ‘no platform’ those Muslims who hate ISIS, critique the Niqab, apostasy eyc etc. They’re hypocrite and …

    Lewis is great on pointing out how conservative their social policing is. I’m with her on the attempt to ban drag and her fandom of Ru Paul’s Drag Race. Anyone not laughing along with that is the C21st equivalent of Mary Whitehouse.

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm

  11. Hmmm – why are a bunch of people here who ceased to be students a long time ago worrying about the silliness which afflicts the NUS? Is it nostalgia for their own, increasingly distant, misspent youths? Or is it something more sinister? I think we should be told…


    March 25, 2015 at 2:21 pm

  12. Francis: Because these (Oxford Uni) are literally the same people who have no issue with giving Choudary a platform.

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 3:02 pm

  13. The only people appropriating black women are ISIS and Boko Harem. Actually, it’s not really women, they just get slaughtered, it’s girls and children.

    Sue R

    March 25, 2015 at 3:33 pm

  14. From http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html

    A few weeks ago, Zineb El Rhazoui, a journalist at Charlie Hebdo, spoke at the University of Chicago, protected by the security guards she has traveled with since supporters of the Islamic State issued death threats against her. During the question-and-answer period, a Muslim student stood up to object to the newspaper’s apparent disrespect for Muslims and to express her dislike of the phrase “I am Charlie.”

    Ms. El Rhazoui replied, somewhat irritably, “Being Charlie Hebdo means to die because of a drawing,” and not everyone has the guts to do that (although she didn’t use the word guts). She lives under constant threat, Ms. El Rhazoui said. The student answered that she felt threatened, too.

    A few days later, a guest editorialist in the student newspaper took Ms. El Rhazoui to task. She had failed to ensure “that others felt safe enough to express dissenting opinions.” Ms. El Rhazoui’s “relative position of power,” the writer continued, had granted her a “free pass to make condescending attacks on a member of the university.” In a letter to the editor, the president and the vice president of the University of Chicago French Club, which had sponsored the talk, shot back, saying, “El Rhazoui is an immigrant, a woman, Arab, a human-rights activist who has known exile, and a journalist living in very real fear of death. She was invited to speak precisely because her right to do so is, quite literally, under threat.”

    You’d be hard-pressed to avoid the conclusion that the student and her defender had burrowed so deep inside their cocoons, were so overcome by their own fragility, that they couldn’t see that it was Ms. El Rhazoui who was in need of a safer space.

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 3:41 pm

  15. Paul Canning, you are too kind for your own good. If I were you I’d cease imbibing of the milk of loving-kindness.

    Sue R

    March 25, 2015 at 3:44 pm

  16. SueR: ROFLOL! I was just reading how, to protect the unformed minds of Uni Chicago students from the ‘triggering’ El Rhazoui, the ‘safe space’ literally had rolling video of puppies playing

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 4:22 pm

  17. The article Paul (thanks for that, btw) refers to is here –


    John R

    March 25, 2015 at 4:36 pm

  18. Dunno what ROFLOL stands for, but I did read the article from the student mag. I agree with the comments following on from it.

    Sue R

    March 25, 2015 at 4:59 pm

  19. Francis, unfortunately stuff like this from the ‘safe space’ ideology and the enforced consensus (‘horizontal decision making’) is used by people well into the sere and yellow years.

    Some, no doubt, are nostalgic for a version of the Beyond the Fragments.

    Others are just plain wrong-headed, muddle-headed, and headed politically nowhere (though as a rule of thumb the most ardent of such ideas end up in the Cohn-Bendit well-remunerated side of life).

    As the author of the sentence (on Charlie Hebdo), “It thus came as a shock to me that despite these problems, most of the audience appeared to endorse El Rhazoui’s conception of free speech by giving her a standing ovation when the event ended. ”

    I say to ‘im:

    Andrew Coates

    March 25, 2015 at 5:31 pm

  20. Sue: rolls on floor laughing out loud .

    I just read the Time article that Andrew referred to and a NUS conference motion against white gay men (but really against all gay men) was based on.

    This ignorant author believes that (white) gay men somehow have more ‘privilege’ because we can make the choice whether or not we’re closeted. She actually writes that. That’s what the ‘privilige’ bit of the NUS motion is based on, female (straight, I’m guessing) utter ignorance of gays. Sheesh. Never mind ‘checking’ (i.e. stopping to think) how much ‘appropriation’ of gay culture goes on! (Which is fabulous and progressive and makes an old white gay queen proud and happy and can we stop with this – and this is dead set serious – communalist crapola).

    Message for NUS women: No, girlfriend, you check your privilege ..

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 5:44 pm

  21. More conservative culturalist posturing:

    The NUS bans drag as fancy dress – except it doesn’t . Helen Lewis.

    The National Union of Students wants zero tolerance for students who cross-dress for “shock value”. But cross-dressing is subversive and liberating – even when rugby players do it.

    “The conference also voted to renew the no-platform on radical feminist Julie Bindel, for (among other things) reiterating her belief that “bisexuality doesn’t exist as a sexual identity, thus erasing bisexual individuals’ identities and experiences” and having “criticised women who wear the niqab in her article for the Daily Mail . . . [by] refusing to believe that Muslim women have made their own decision to wear the niqab she denies Muslim women agency”.

    The funniest response to that first claim was the 400 women called Sarah who signed a petition saying they disagreed with her. The second claim raises some complicated questions. If “the NUS Women’s’ Officers and members of the NUS Women’s committee shall not offer a platform to any transphobic speaker, biphobic or Islamophobic speaker”, who decides what qualifies as Islamophobia? It’s true that criticism of Islam can function as a cover for racism, but equally, religious beliefs and practices must not be accepted unquestioningly in a free, secular society. Only this week, Maryam Namazie – who was raised in a Muslim family but is now an atheist and secularist – pulled out of a talk at an Irish university after it was suggested that a discussion on apostasy would “upset” Muslim students. And as someone facetiously, but correctly, pointed out on Twitter, many Islamist preachers are themselves homophobic (and, one presumes, biphobic). Is it Islamophobic to oppose them?”


    Andrew Coates

    March 25, 2015 at 6:15 pm

  22. The problem is not and has never been too much Enlightenment. The problem is *not enough* Enlightenment. It is not enough to assume battles have been won (this applies as much to antiracism, women’s rights, LGBTI rights and so on as it does to workers’ rights), the Counter-Enlightenment is always searching for a way to turn the clock back, to erase the gains, to punish. The Counter-enlightenment has turned the language of Enlightment on its head to great and sinister effect with the descent into the apartheid of ‘identity’ politics.

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    March 25, 2015 at 9:17 pm

  23. PS, anyone who thinks ‘jazz hands’ are acceptable in any context, let alone a (supposedly) ‘progressive’ forum really needs to check *their* fucking privilege. What’s the gesture for mild disagreement – picking cotton?

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    March 25, 2015 at 9:22 pm

  24. I can only reiterate my suggestion on another thread that anyone who has ever held a position in the NUS should be debarred from political office for at least two decades thereafter. For their own good, and ours.


    March 25, 2015 at 9:30 pm

  25. But Francis, this would have deprived us of the essential services of Monsieur Stephen Twigg … oh, I see what you mean …

    Paul Canning

    March 25, 2015 at 9:46 pm

  26. i wonder if this is the end process of a particular kind of thinking, which has now reached absurd proportions, and is laughable. Yassamine Mather is right, but i wonder what anyone would make of this event at an Anarchist conference over some ideological offence the speaker Kristian Williams has apparently commited. i honestly dont know what the offence is


    March 25, 2015 at 9:51 pm

  27. Ms. El Rhazoui’s talk “Who is Charlie?” at the French Club in Chicago is actually on YouTube –

    John R

    March 25, 2015 at 10:05 pm

  28. some of the ‘left’ wing blogs such as this and shiraz socialist sound much like a certain ‘right’ ideology. and you have the audacity to call me a nazi. you are all a bit like this gentleman:


    March 25, 2015 at 11:10 pm

  29. especially Sue R- a raging Islamophobe.


    March 25, 2015 at 11:12 pm

  30. The Helen Lewis piece linked to here is really, really good.

    (I got into a certain amount of trouble years ago for saying something similar during the Westwood Wars: that some people who say they are of the Left actually have the same idea of what people like me should and shouldn’t do as the Daily Telegraph.)


    March 26, 2015 at 12:16 am

  31. It’s enough to make you put your head in your jazz hands and weep.

    The resolution against Gay White Men is based on an article in Time Magazine from last year which caused a bit of an uproar, though there were no shortage of feminists supporting it. One, Ali Barthwell came up with this impressive accusation:

    “White gay men spend their Saturday nights pretending to be black women to make their friends laugh.”

    Yes, really. Well, apparently. It’s an accusation so sweeping and bigoted that it goes beyond offensive into the utterly absurd. Doesn’t Ms Barthwell know that it’s Friday nights that every single gay white man pretends to be a black woman to make their friends laugh; Saturdays are for human sacrifices of black children.


    I suspect this motion was introduced to pander to a strand of more, shall we say, socially conservative ‘feminists’ who have a bit of an issue with white people or homosexuality generally. And the good white feminists obliged. Nice going, sisters.

    And this from the same bunch of ‘feminists’ who refuse to criticise ISIS, who actualy enslave and mass rape teeanage Yazidi girls. Still, at leaast they are not black or Muslim, so why should any good progressive care?

    These ‘feminists’ are an abject lot, a mixture of clowns and moral cowards. They are symptomatic of the left’s general losing of the plot, either completely betraying or making a laughing stock of causes and progressive principles that once meant something.

    Yes, the political right will make hay with all this, but really, why should groups like gay men give a shit any more about a Guardianista left that has well and truly thrown them under the bus? In its choice of allies and extremists whom it won’t criticise at all, it is now far worse than the political right. It can fuck off, preferably to a thunderous round of jazz hands.


    March 26, 2015 at 1:38 am

  32. Sister Lamia, believe me some of the sisters have been making sh&t up about gay men for aaages ..

    I’m old enough to recall Dworkin’s madeup efforts on how gay porn was basically rape 35 years ago. There’s a straight line between that and how the Nordic model on prostitution completely ignores gay men.

    The hilarious thing about this is the pretense that it’s about white gay men, like they actually give black gay men a pass. Or that the anti-drag stuff is just about rugby clubs and, woops!, just happens to call gay drag queens ‘fancy dress’.

    I would love to see some gay student activists grow a backbone on this crap but it won’t happen.

    There were a few gay responses to that Time piece which I ended up reviewing today (thank you NUS women! Not!), some cringingly pandering, but this one by a black gay man nails it > http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/dear-white-gays-twir


    “Mannie fabricates a universe in which the mere fact of being white and gay is some kind of privilege.

    She also seems to forget that the many “black” cultural signifiers she is so fond of were made popular by black gays. Would there be a Beyonce without Ru Paul’s drag persona? Ru was saying “fierce” and throwing shade in the 1970s and 1980s. Half the time, I can’t tell the difference between Beyonce and Ru Paul. They probably buy their weaves from the same person.

    On Mannie’s Facebook page (which I will not link out to here, because I am not a monster), under religion, she lists “What would Beyonce do?” Well, she’d probably start by not being so oblivious to cultural history, and just might be a bit more willing to accept the free-flowing share of ideas that makes for a harmonious society rather than choose to cast stones all day.”

    Ironically, oh the irony, Beyonce was the soundtrack for #nuswomen15 …

    Here’s RuPaul on the SJWs – Preach!

    Paul Canning

    March 26, 2015 at 2:42 am

  33. Good post, and I agree about the influence of black drag, which Mannie seems to be conveniently ignorant of.

    It is all very silly but I think there is also something sinister here. The conference pointedly condemned ‘Transphobia, biphobia and Islamophobia’. Because of course, to the loony left those are obvious pairings and homophobia is no longer an issue on British campuses and in British society. It’s not as if there are any hate preachers who say gay people should be murdered. It’s the hate preachers who need protecting, apparently, not the gay people whom they don’t ever in any way say should be killed.

    This is just a calculated ‘fuck you’ to gay men. So much for solidarity, and I am afraid this is one of the reasons I do not support the political left anymore. I know most people here do, and I am sure for good motives, but I have been there and done that and I am not going to waste any energy or sympathy on a left that now quite clearly treats gay rights as something to trade off to gain favour with bigots from other minorities, and is getting more and more blatant in doing this. And there is abject silence from Labour figures on this sort of crap – that is when they are not actually palling around with or making excuses for Islamist hate preachers themselves..

    So the left doesn’t want my vote. Okay, how about my enmity? It’s earned that.


    March 26, 2015 at 12:14 pm

  34. Lamina, Paul and Red my conclusion is exactly that, these are “socially conservative” people.

    They want custom and tradition protected, no offence to be given to anybody, and the rest.

    It’s not surprising that they come to the aid of other ‘social conservatives’ (Islamists).

    Or to be it more frankly: reactionaries.

    How long before they come out with something along the lines of ‘we are neither left nor right’?

    There are precedents….

    Andrew Coates

    March 26, 2015 at 1:04 pm

  35. This meme is everywhere:

    Andrew Coates

    March 26, 2015 at 1:35 pm

  36. So far as I am concerned, ALL identity politics can go to the devil. The left as such should be about liberté, égalité, fraternité, with a particular emphasis on promoting equality – social, political, and above all economic. To the extent that various groups in society suffer discrimination and therefore inequality – but only to that extent – the left should back their cause. Other than that, the left owes them nothing and vice versa. Gays, Jews, Muslims, whoever, as individuals can be on the left, the right, or neither. I prefer them to be on the left – but because they want to see a society of greater equality, not because of their “identities”.


    March 26, 2015 at 2:15 pm

  37. I thought we’d had this over after Robert Hughes’ The Culture of Complaint (1993) and Naomi Klein’s tearing to shreds of the American liberal ‘left’ culture identity wars in a few pages in her No Logo (1999).

    Andrew Coates

    March 26, 2015 at 6:11 pm

  38. the problem is what’s ‘left’? it is contested to a large extent. whatever problems there are with Furedi’s gang, and Spiked, at least they and the cpgb weekly worker have consistently stood against this. it seems to me that there is a semi emotional culture, in which one gets kudos for being a victim, which somehow magically makes a point valid. in the above anarchist video i posted, this claiming the victim act is pushed into a stupid extreme. there is also the politics of who owns or has rights to certain types of culture. i notice it with younger people than myself. thus, a white rapper is accused of being a neo colonialist and exploiting black culture, and there are debates about whether a white woman wearing a bindi or indian type fashion/culture is exploting the indians etc. i think it is a politics of resentment, and ultimate stupidity.

    it also seems quite linked with various kinds of ill thought out french postmodern/post structural type of politics.


    March 26, 2015 at 8:23 pm

  39. I understand why Lamia says what he/she says.

    But I suppose I stick with the Left in economic terms because economics are still a great concern of mine and I do think Ed Miliband has some essentially good reformist ideas.


    March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm

  40. (kimchee – I did say something above about the strange alignment between these people and the Mail/Telegraph apropos the influence of the post-1980 black Atlantic, musically, on those from other cultural background)


    March 26, 2015 at 8:32 pm

  41. *backgrounds


    March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm

  42. what we need is not people of color fighting for crumbs fallen from the table, but instead socialist jewnity.


    March 26, 2015 at 9:25 pm

  43. The response to express disapproval should be to lightly clench the fist, with the fingers curled into the palm of the hand and the thumb resting on top of the index finger, and the hand is moved up and down from the wrist joint while the forearm is kept perfectly still.

    Sue R

    March 26, 2015 at 10:12 pm

  44. an antiracist hitler; this is what the AWL is


    March 26, 2015 at 11:49 pm

  45. “Socialist jewnity”? Wtf? That could have come straight from Metapedia or Stormfront.


    March 27, 2015 at 12:51 am

  46. The TendanceCoatesy Comment Compactor got me! Anyway … I bit and watched half of that Brother Nathanael shite. Anyone who takes that seriously is not worth wasting time on and must be ignored. If the troll is not fed, it will get bored and fuck off (having already promised to fuck off on more than one occasion, although on this, as everything else, it proves itself manifestly brimming with shite).

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    March 27, 2015 at 4:10 am

  47. This is what started the recent “Jazz Hands” nonsense in NUS: I thought it was satire, but apparently not: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/uk-students-union-passes-policy-stop-white-gay-men-acting-black-women250315

    Jim Denham

    March 27, 2015 at 10:34 am

  48. Thanks Jim.

    That article reveals that the NUS is pretty homophobic.

    Andrew Coates

    March 27, 2015 at 1:41 pm

  49. Does it? I thought it just revealed that the NUS activist minority has got sunk in the mire of identity politics in which the claims of one group of special pleaders cannot be reconciled with the claims of another. Each side will then denounce the other as being [insert group here]-phobic. But there are 2 points to be made about NUS politics. Firstly, it holds little or no interest for the great majority of students most of the time, and secondly, most of its practitioners will grow out of it, even if some of them do end up as Labour MPs.


    March 27, 2015 at 2:01 pm

  50. The women who proposed Jazz Hands has written in the Oxford student’s paper. It’s predictably all whining about evil trolls. In the comments there are several people who actually have a genuine anxiety disorder telling her off, including one lengthy gem.


    “Maybe it was worth having to sacrifice comfort to not become so painfully egocentric as to fail to experience shame when the best you can do to solve a problem by dancing a wiggle and wiggling your hands like you’re dancing to music only you can hear. Perhaps this is the price of enabling a sense of unconditional acceptance. People who never grow up, who call those with mental disabilities immature, while failing to see that because those with mental disabilities had to grow up sooner they are much more mature than they are. Perhaps I should view the suffering I went through as a gift. It’s certainly better than being an adult who’s answers to difficult problems are circle time, dancey-clap, then juice and crackers.”


    Paul Canning

    March 27, 2015 at 2:10 pm

  51. Here’s another person who actually does have a disorder telling these kids off.


    “So here’s what I would say if I had been the conference organiser today and someone had have came to me and asked that clapping be banned as it triggered their anxiety… “No.”

    I wouldn’t be so blunt with them and if I honestly believed they had a real diagnosed (by an actual medical professional, not your auntie who’s a Wiccan counsellor) disorder then I would sit and talk with them about it and explain that by granting their wishes I would actually be harming them. They would continue to see themselves as a victim where others must do their bidding because they are a victim and in the long run that will not happen so they will more than likely end up suffering from depression. (Again, actual depression, not the self-diagnosed I’m feeling a bit down stuff that so many come up with today. Actual depression has some actual symptoms which if they are not there then you aren’t depressed in the medical sense.)”

    I also noticed from the Oxford student’s defense that Palestine gets randomly thrown in, as it appeared to be in their decisions. Like ‘we oppose blah AND stand up for Palestine’. Several times. It seems to be a given that SJWs must mention Palestine and not some other random foreign place. What could that be about? Hmm …

    Paul Canning

    March 27, 2015 at 2:29 pm

  52. This Jazz Hands nonsense. If I were a (quicker) and genuine troll, I would have posted a tweet requesting Jazz Hands to stop, claiming it could “trigger” my supposed epilepsy. The relationship between hand waving and setting off an epileptic fit is extremely tenuous, but probably no more tenuous than a link between applause and ‘anxiety’.

    “”It’s certainly better than being an adult who’s answers to difficult problems are circle time, dancey-clap, then juice and crackers.””

    This whole business reminds me of the German Pirate Party (at one point about to take over from DIe Linke as Germany’s 3rd/4th party, now long reached oblivion, thankfully, in retrospect) – at their brief “height of success” they wasted time, energy, effort, oxygen and sapped the reason for humans to exist by introducing the “concept” of “pony time”. i.e.during “heated debates” there would be breakes in which everyone would be forced to watch an episode of “My little pony”, due to its humanity-warming message of Hasbro selling plastic pink toys to 30ish gay men (is that homophobic? no, not in this case; but, ok, if you insist, I will replace that with “bronies”) and the parents of small girls who have been pestered; or something.

    If I remember rightly they tried to change the standing orders of the Berlin city-state government to accomodate this nonsense. It wouldn’t surprise me if they used jazz hands etc. as well at times, though a lot of angry incomprehensible muttered-shouting was a feature of their conferences as well.

    Just be thankful that this is only NUS Women’s Conference, at one time a haven of sanity when heavily influenced by the AWL, and not a genuine or relevant law-making body. God bless the FPTP electoral system (or not).

    Will Jazz Hands and Ponytime become Icelandic law if the Piratúr win the national elections, as is to be expected?

    dagmar's too close to the telly watching teenage mutant hero john coltraine and it's alll flickering inside her head again

    March 28, 2015 at 1:04 am

  53. Jazz Hands?
    I note that one-time “Jazz Mag” Loaded is finished. Thank heavens there are still Jazz Cigarettes.


    March 28, 2015 at 1:09 am

  54. Waving your hands about in this manner is the recognised symbol for applause in the deaf-world. (I almost wrote ‘deaf-speaking qorld’ wlhich would be an oxymoron!). Interestingly, flapping your hands in this manner is also a diagnostic trait of autism.

    Sue R

    March 28, 2015 at 1:22 pm

  55. The best progressive (as in ‘making change’) ideas are proposed by those in their 20s or teens. The older the audience listening to those ideas, the deeper will be their revulsion, whether ostensible Trots or Tories.

    There are many older here. I would image in the same process was gone through in the 50s when some Trots started arguing for ‘rights for homosexuals’ and they would have denounced by those older as silly, irrelevant or even perverse.

    The jazz hands idea (which is not new) is good. Most conferences, however Left are dominated by those with a level of confidence and little or no self-doubt. People like me; those who can go on even if the rest of the room is howling them down.

    Many a comrade I have encouraged to speak has declined to do so through a shyness, or an unwillingness to be subject to denunciation. Anything, like ‘jazz hands’, that removes verbal aggression is good.

    See, even the Left has the mentality of the mob and that is why we should positively consider ideas for reform debating practices.

    I have an interest in some forms of art and occasionally contribute at forums there. Commentators there are usually have a Left background.

    If I ever post something that goes against the established grain, (‘this artist was actually quite good’) then the same process always unfolds.

    If the next two commentators happen to agree with me, then further agreement will follow from near all. The reverse happens if those first two criticise my comments. These ‘freethinkers’ are but a mob that will fall in line so as not to be thought odd – who can actually say whether many an artist is good or bad – they just jump on the side of safety in numbers. The same happens in ‘Trot’ blog land.

    So anything that makes the Left, and particularly those new to it or less confident, be able to play a fuller part is fine. But even better is something that can give people the confidence to think and also argue against the pack, when necessary.

    So any new idea from ‘jazz hands’ to the wilder shores of LBTGQ (plus doubtless other initials now) should be considered sincerely, not just prejudged.

    It is time for an age cap of 30 on the leadership of all left groups. Down with the reactionaries.

  56. I don’t think everyone over 30 is a reactionary by any means.

    But then I don’t think sexual intercourse with children is “liberating” either.


    March 28, 2015 at 11:52 pm

  57. Mr Punch writes: “It is time for an age cap of 30 on the leadership of all left groups. Down with the reactionaries”

    I write: It’s a good job that you use that silly name, Mr Punch, and that most of us lefties aren’t in favour of utilising the bourgeois law on Age Discrimination.

    Still, you’re over 30 aren’t you, and that doesn’t stop you spouting total bollocks, does it?

    Jim Denham

    March 29, 2015 at 1:23 am

  58. Thanks for that, presumably drunken, update. Well, at least, it is nonsense and near incomprehensible.

    1. I presume you are making the point that, good Left as you are, you wouldn’t dream of reporting me to the cops for breaking age discrimination laws.

    Well, authoritarian as the UK is, it’s not illegal to say ‘we should do X’ (in such a case; it’s not incitement or similar that is reserved for serious crimes) the law kicks in only if you do X.

    2. Over 30? Your comment would only make sense if I was, or you thought I was, under 30.

    3. Never is a finer example of the long-road from political astuteness of 40 years ago (weren’t you an early member of Workers Power?) to political decrepitude as clearly demonstrated in your own degeneration. Think – who was more reactionary at your age now – you or your Dad? A fine example of why the youth need to lead.

  59. @ southpawpunch

    “in the 50s when some Trots started arguing for ‘rights for homosexuals’ and they would have denounced by those older as silly, irrelevant or even perverse. ”

    Well, they would find an echo of such attitudes in the motion of support expressed at the Left Unity conference for a group, ISIS, that regularly puts homosexuals to death.

    I wonder who personally seconded that disgusting motion.

    Oh, I forgot… it was you, wasn’t it, Mark? You fucking evil scumbag.


    March 29, 2015 at 1:10 pm

  60. My name isn’t Mark nor would I have supported that motion.

    I look forward to your apology, Lamia.

  61. That’s funny, not only did you tweet from the Left Unity conference, you also explicitly tweeted in support of ISIS here:

    Pour actual words were:

    “Left must support those who fight for national self-determination. Supporting IS against USA.”

    So by your own proud admission you did support the motion, and you have now been exposed as a lying scumbag. Oh dear.


    March 29, 2015 at 3:36 pm

  62. Typo: ‘Your’ not ‘Pour’ ‘actual words’.


    March 29, 2015 at 3:37 pm

  63. No I didn’t tweet from the LU conference in late 2014 (when that motion was proposed) – because I was not there!

    Yes, I support those, like IS, solely in their fight against imperialism, but not in anything else. So if I was, I would have voted AGAINST that motion.

    I am not the Mark (or any Mark) that you claimed I am. That Mark, on his twitter profile, proclaims his member ship of Plaid Cymru and the SNP (as well as Left Unity). Just look through my Twitter feed for my views of rascals like the SNP. His politics are very different to mine.

    Lamia, you are a pathetic wretch. If I know who you were, I would make my disquiet at you known, face-to face

    As I don’t, why don’t you try to reclaim just a tiny smidgen of decency and apologise for your false smears.

  64. So if I was – at the conference – I would have voted…

  65. Southpawpunch So you support a group that commits genocide, kills homosexuals,rape womens, openly practice slavery of people and kills anybody they dont agree with as long as they fight against the imperialist boogeyman. Classy real classy you vile trot and you wonder why the left in uk is destroyed


    March 29, 2015 at 7:33 pm

  66. if you can support such polices you have a better chance to wooing nazi skinheads to your side who do agree with alot of isis policys like killing homosexuals,genocide against minority groups,abolishing democracy and replacing it with a authoritarian tyrant, so yeah you do have alot of common with nazis.

    And if anything you are worse because at least the nazis are honest about what they are


    March 29, 2015 at 7:43 pm

  67. Oh yeah and isis hates communists and they would kill you for being one, ive spent tens of hours reading isis twitter posts and ive seen more posts where they talk about how much they want to behead communist or hate them more then of jews

    Oh yeah and isis hates communists more so then the imperialist caplist you think they will fight


    March 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm

  68. “Yes, I support those, like IS, solely in their fight against imperialism, but not in anything else. So if I was, I would have voted AGAINST that motion.”

    Sure, because ISIS are well known for compartmentalise their activities into separate categories, like fighting the US, enslaving Yazidis, raping Yazidis, ethnically cleansing Christians, murdering Christian children, murdering Kurdish POWS, murdering gay people, etcetera, aren’t they?

    You’re full of shit.

    “Lamia, you are a pathetic wretch. If I know who you were, I would make my disquiet at you known, face-to face”

    That sounds quite a bit like an attempt at a threat. Deeply, deeply foolish. Apart from anything else, It would be fairly easy for the police or indeed anyone else to track down someone with your rather rarified political track record. Are you absolutely sure you want to do this? I am perfectly confident in (a) my anonymity (b) the support of my employer, (c) the obvious fact that I haven’t uttered anything like a threat here. Are you? Really?


    March 29, 2015 at 8:19 pm

  69. Mr Punch is simply an evil scumbag with no place in civilised society, let alone on the left. Why do we even tolerate filth like him?

    Jim Denham

    March 30, 2015 at 8:39 am

  70. Lamia,

    I fully understand all the distraction techniques you are engaging in e.g. about ‘what is IS?’ etc. I understand that you want to change the subject.

    But no-one intelligent has lost sight of the point that is making you do all this flim-flam.You falsely accused me of being a Mark and who supported a pro IS motion at the LU conference in November 2014. As I have demonstrated, you are wrong in that claim.

    Are you going to apologise now for that or are you going to continue being a lowlife?

    The palpable fear expressed by you in your comments about your employer suggests the outcome to be expected from a pathetic soul like yourself.

  71. “You falsely accused me of being a Mark…”

    Okay, you are not called Mark, I withdraw that apparently outrageous slur.

    “…and who supported a pro IS motion at the LU conference in November 2014.”

    You did support it. You stated your support for it on Twitter, as anyone on this thread can see. You have been in no way traduced or misrepresented there. So what do you expect an apology for? You are a Left Unity ISIS supporter who happens not to be called Mark, that’s all.

    “The palpable fear expressed by you in your comments about your employer suggests the outcome to be expected from a pathetic soul like yourself.”

    You didn’t understand the full comment. I was questioning whether your own employer would be happy to find out that you are someone who supports ISIS and tries to make threats on the internet. What do you think?


    March 30, 2015 at 1:37 pm

  72. @southpawpunch,

    I have seen some of your other posts – on Shiraz Socialist – and I think I’m getting a better understanding of you now.

    For instance, on the subject of Boko Haram, you wrote:

    “Even if Boko Haram crucify every Christian they get hold of (or a Christian group did that to Muslims) the defeat of a Western power intervening is a much greater gain for the international working class than the defeat of a (few thousand) no-hope medievalists.”


    So it appears that you consider the lives of innocent people to be disposable so long as it benefits ‘the international working class’.

    Let me ask you: if someone told you that it was necessary to kill you and all your family and friends for the sake of the international working class, would you find that acceptable and go willingly to the slaughter chamber?

    If not, why not? You’re not a cowardly, sadistic hypocrite, surely?


    March 30, 2015 at 2:42 pm

  73. I did not support the motion. I was not even there to vote for or against or for motion as I made clear above.
    And if I had been there, I would have voted against it, as I also make clear above. Stop shilly-shallying and withdraw.

    I fully understood your other comment, thanks. You are the one with the comprehension problem – either out of convenience or your own stupidity.

    I take a communist attitude to my employer: they can go and fuck themselves.

  74. Well, we have your word that you were not at the conference but we also have your highly unconvincing claim that you would not have supported the motion. ‘Highly unconvincing’ because during the conference itself you yourself tweeted this:

    ““Left must support those who fight for national self-determination. Supporting IS against USA.”

    Are you denying that?

    Any news on whether you would be willing to be killed, along with your friends and family, for the good of the working class?


    March 30, 2015 at 3:13 pm

  75. Southpaw punch is just a nihilist. If he thinks that world domination by violent, medievalists such as ISIS (or even Iran or Saudi Arabia) is a boon for the workingclass then he is a scoundrel and one has to wonder what his game is.

    Sue R

    March 30, 2015 at 9:05 pm

  76. Master Punch a scoundrel? Pecksniffian bounder I would say.

  77. A couple of years ago whilst silver surfing the net, I came across a local community site based in Havering, Essex. Upon it there was an interview with a person purporting to be SouthpawPunch. In the interview, said individual said that he only pretending to be a violent leftist in order to wind people up; he was, in reality, a Liberal Democrat. Was the interview I read an imposter sowing confusion or was it the real SPP? Since then I take every thing he says with a shovel of salt. Obviously, he has been a lefty, he seems to have a particular animus towards the AWL and Jim Denham (to the point of pathological), but he has recanted, probably over the Iraq invasion like Tariq Ali.

    Sue R

    March 31, 2015 at 11:38 am

    • Sounds all too plausible.

      We should be told!

      Andrew Coates

      March 31, 2015 at 4:31 pm

  78. When I read the phrase “Local Community Site Based In Havering” I have to think of Graham Williamson and the rest of the ex-NF ex-pro-Gadaffi “Third Way” who now style themselves the “National Liberal Party”, who have been runnning their (various) brand of “community based politics” in Havering for a couple of decades now, not completely without success.

    (That, along with the local Tory MP for Romford, with his union-jack wearing bulldog mascot, both explain why the BNP could never get a foothold in politics there, unlike in neighbouring Barking & Dagenham. Are Ukip failing as much in Romford as the BNP did? Sue, do you know?)


    March 31, 2015 at 5:26 pm

  79. Southpawpunch – [five years ago]

    “I think maybe the Southpawpunch experiment will some come to end. I reckon I have managed to completely discredit the ostensible Trotsykist take on the world by making the most ultraleft points this side of Left Communism (and showing their vast rightward shift from Bolshevism) whilst, at the same time, scoring many direct hits on the muddle-headed, shilly shallying of the useless Labour ‘Left'(sic). Besides my cheques, direct from Labour HQ (to ensure no credible enemies to their Left), are likely to stop after the election especially as I now have a lot of work to do as a Liberal Democrat candidate with a possibility of getting into parliament this time.”


    more here (with alleged photo) –


    John R

    March 31, 2015 at 5:40 pm

  80. Southpawpunch –

    “I think maybe the Southpawpunch experiment will some come to end. I reckon I have managed to completely discredit the ostensible Trotsykist take on the world by making the most ultraleft points this side of Left Communism (and showing their vast rightward shift from Bolshevism) whilst, at the same time, scoring many direct hits on the muddle-headed, shilly shallying of the useless Labour ‘Left'(sic). Besides my cheques, direct from Labour HQ (to ensure no credible enemies to their Left), are likely to stop after the election especially as I now have a lot of work to do as a Liberal Democrat candidate with a possibility of getting into parliament this time.”


    More here including a photo (allegedly) –


    john r

    March 31, 2015 at 6:02 pm

  81. I think it’s symptomatic of this website that dim Sue R reads (self) parody as ‘for real’ (the site that John R links to, is the site she means), another commentator suggests I would comment on the website of a (former?) Nazi and the owner of this site also think the above comments are credible.

    But then that is from someone who first posted in the style of a Daily Mail journalist. Getting back to ‘jazz hands’, it is false, as Coates claims (just copying the Huffing ton Post), that the “The NUS Asked Its Student Delegates To Use Jazz Hands Instead Of Clapping To Avoid Triggering Anxiety..”…

    Not it didn’t. Someone who was controlling the NUS Women’s Campaign twitter account tweeted something no more than relaying an idea that someone else had tweeted.

    That’s the Daily Mail approach. They publish a story like ‘Colne Valley Labour Party says ‘Put Blair on trial” when it’s just some sad once Left type, who now holds a position in the Labour Party as no more than constituency Real Ale and Morris dancing co-ordinator, who tweets such.

    But what about the subject under discussion – jazz hands? I defend their use. But no-one make any comment on why it is wrong to use them (other than people just think it is ‘ridiculous’, but without explanation. Is it more or less democratic – for example.) Where is the debate about the best way to, er, debate? Or do people really think traditional conference forms are best?

    Instead the thread gets hijacked by some jerk who makes outrageous (and irrelevant) slurs about me and IS and which, the latter one (no I did not support any such motion and I wasn’t even there!) is left unwithdrawn by the coward.

    How I long for serious Left forum, where (near) all are welcome, threads are curated (so irrelevant comments are removed – which also stops needing to reply to them) and debate, not gossip, dominate.

    But what do you expect from Labour Party types?

  82. Once more for the benefit of SouthpawMinstrelShow – do you use the traditional burned cork or black slap these days? – so-called ‘jazzhands’ stink of y’know the racist portrayal of black people, the ‘good old days’ of rape and torture and mint juleps, Jim Crow, minstrel shows, all that sort of shit.

    redkorat☭ (@red_korat)

    March 31, 2015 at 9:08 pm

  83. Ask yourself why, SouthpawPunch, why people are ready to believe rumours about you. I remember the incredibly violent things you used to post on Dave Ostler’s site, and it was your throwaway remark that led to Dave being sued for libel. Admittedly, no one couldhave foreseen that the subject of the alleged libel would take that action, and I don’t hold that against you, I do however remember that you said you would reveal your identity after the case was finished. YOu also refused to give evidence on Dave’s behalf. Even now you are trying to belittle us and being evasive. Why would anyone want to give an inerview in which they claim to be a paid agent of the Labour Party bureaucracy to disrupt the Left? Are they a cherry short of a Black Forest Gateau?

    Sue R

    March 31, 2015 at 9:33 pm

  84. It’s called parody, Sue (about the ‘LP bureaucracy’). Get your carer to explain that word to you. Anyone with anything about them can see it is obviously such

    And your ‘facts’ about the Osler matter are near all wrong. Just like your comment above about the ‘Iraq invasion’. I have recanted about nothing and my position then was as now – calling for the defeat of imperialism.

    And your view on jazz hands?

  85. Jazz Hands: I actually find ‘jazz hands’ more worrying, sudden flapping movements, like birds of something. If someone is that anxious, what are they doing exposing themselves to all sorts of risks at a meeting anyway? Reminds me of the story that at William the Conquerors coronation, the Saxons cheered as was the custom, but the Norman knights thought there was a riot outside and rushed out and killed them all. (Then nicked their lands). Anyway, I’m covering my ears like a kid, when your words mean nothing I go lala. I;m turning off the volume when you speak cause my if my heart can’t stop it, I’ll find a way to block it. I go la, la, la, la (ad infinitum)..

    By the way, tell us how the facts I have related about the Osler case are ‘near all wrong’? Otherwise it looks like you are a slimy toerag.

    Sue R

    March 31, 2015 at 10:12 pm

  86. Andrew, is there something wrong with your server? I am getting fed up with having my pearls of wisdom dropping into the void. Just to recap on the comment that has been lost, can SouthpawPunch explain why my facts on the Osler situation are all wrong? Can he also explain why he thinks it amusing to masquerade as a ‘double agent’? That would get him killed in many parts of the world, so it does not strike me as particularly amusing. On ‘john r”s web page from five years ago he makes a reference to George Blake. Does he see himself as a George Blake character? Is that why he makes jokes about vaunting over prison walls? Perhaps he is George Blake, although I thought George Blake was dead. Didn’t he come to bitterly regret living in the Soviet Union? Anyway, the point is SPP is BUSTED. Which particular form of imperialism is SPP keen to defeat by the way?

    Sue R

    April 1, 2015 at 11:24 am

  87. And, on jazz hands, I find them more threatening than clapping. Like fluttering birds. If you have such extreme anxiety issues, why are you going to public conferences anyway? Take some responsibility for yourself and accept your limitations. How are you going to be a class arrior or campaigner if you are startled at the sound of clapping?

    Sue R

    April 1, 2015 at 11:27 am

  88. I’m surprised no one has pointed out the correct anti-imperialist solution to the problem of “clapping causing distress” and the need of the international working class to adopt “jazz hands”.

    Chop those offending hands off at the wrist. Those social-imperialist scum and their “clapping” deserve it.

    Pour encourager les autres.

    john r

    April 1, 2015 at 11:39 am

  89. John R’s link has all the marks of Sherlock Holmes rigorous detective work.

    I believe it all, and the Liberal Party stuff as well.

    Andrew Coates

    April 1, 2015 at 4:31 pm

  90. “How I long for serious Left forum, where (near) all are welcome, threads are curated (so irrelevant comments are removed – which also stops needing to reply to them) and debate, not gossip, dominate.”

    How true, how very very true……

    The sinister triple agent SouthPaw Punch.

    And his Masters.

    Andrew Coates

    April 1, 2015 at 4:44 pm

  91. (Like an idiot, I posted this at first on the wrong thread.)

    Maybe this was the broadcast which won Southpaw over to the Liberals (allegedly) –

    John R

    April 1, 2015 at 6:27 pm

  92. You know how these these things go, one glib throwaway remark which then hangs like a corpse around your neck forever. ‘But you said…’ Paid by the Labour Party? More likely the Security Service – ‘do you love your country sir? Help us out now and again’,

    Oh and the Dave O stuff? I had face to face conversations with the comrade in question at the time. SouthpawPlantationOwner is a bawbag.

  93. One’s heart feels: Shouting Louder Means Your Throat Gets Sore.

    “Yesterday, I got back from NUS Women’s conference, which was incredibly inspiring and also emotionally exhausting. The hashtag was hijacked by many the troll, many white men tweeting their not-asked-for opinions on this conference that was totally irrelevant to them. They took a lot of issue with people at the conference (including me) asking the conference floor to refrain from clapping as it slowed down the process of passing motions, was loud and distracting and sparked anxiety in some members, due to loud noises and too many distractions. ”

    “Know your enemies and know your siblings. Know that family is not exclusively based on blood and nuclear. My siblings are the women who I cry with and fight with and sigh with and scream with. We are all shouting together, and when my throat is sore, someone will shout for me, and vice versa. Prop each other up, let yourself be down, let yourself be angry and tired, then come back when you’re ready. Strength is in numbers, my siblings, my gals, and there are many, many more of us then them.”

    victorian flower, vagina warrior. 22. student. edinburgh/london.


    Actually this might mean something is these pitiful people actually did anything to help the Kurdish women (‘siblings’ apparently not), like Shilan-Ozcelik.

    Andrew Coates

    April 2, 2015 at 10:04 am

  94. SueR: “Are they a cherry short of a Black Forest Gateau?” That one is copyrighted. Cease and desist, or Justice Eady will be all over you quicker than a cut from a Jimmy Savile telegram to Jeremy Thorpe into a live image of Cyril Smith, M.P.

    Sara "Dagmar" Lee

    April 2, 2015 at 1:30 pm

  95. Actually, Mr Justice Eady ruled that it was not libellous, so I feel perfectly entitled to use the remark. If I have to be original I’d say he is one number short of a lottery win.

    Sue R

    April 2, 2015 at 6:37 pm

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: