Left Socialist Blog
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Leading Cadres, Andrew Coates and Jim Denham of the international workers’ movement, in unity conference.
Written by Andrew Coates
May 11, 2014 at 1:05 pm
Posted in Conspiracies
Tagged with Andrew Coates, Jim Denham, the international workers' movement
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How much alcohol was involved?
May 11, 2014 at 1:19 pm
Jim drinks Whiskey, I drink wine: go figure,
May 11, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Surely in Ipswich you should be on the Adnams?
May 11, 2014 at 3:12 pm
I always wondered whether Ceaușescu was really shot. Who would guess he would turn up in East Anglia to meet Terry Wogan turned spiv.
May 11, 2014 at 3:43 pm
Nice picture. But, as we used to say in the old CP – 1 Trot, you’ve got a tendency, 2 Trots, you’ve got a party, 3 Trots, you’ve got a split. So whatever you do, don’t recruit anyone else. It’s not so easy to get 3 people in a selfie, anyway…
May 11, 2014 at 8:05 pm
London, me old son, London, the East End.
D’wn the ole East End.
May 13, 2014 at 11:09 am
No, I know, from someone attending, that it was in Newham. I really wish such types would not cross the Lea and stay in Stokey. I was concerned to see a shop near me selling some done-in 70s plastic chair for £80. If they take here as well, I’m off to Dagenham (somewhere that can never, ever be turned).
May 13, 2014 at 1:59 pm
It was indeed, just near Canning Town light railway.
May 13, 2014 at 3:55 pm
May 13, 2014 at 7:45 pm
“Dagenham (somewhere that can never, ever be turned).”
Punchie: don’t bet on it. It’s changed extremely in the last 10-15 years and the hipsters will at some point have to turn up because they won’t be able to afford anywhere else. And anything that replaces evangelical churches (in ex-pubs) with pubs, or, dare i say it, even wine bars, can’t be all bad.
Bill Drummond from the KLF said Dagenham is the ‘next Barcelona’. In 50 years time maybe. It’s got the wasteland, the river, space, and a tube connection. The channel rail link goes through, maybe at some point you will be able to go direct from Dagenham Dock to Paris?
Dagmar (Law of Repetitive Comments applies here)
May 14, 2014 at 11:47 am
The picture of Jim D that the AWL’s paper used to have above his articles was a dead-ringer for Reg Varney.
May 14, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Bill Drummond burnt a million quid – and it’s about a million to one that hipsters will ever make Dagenham home. If all else failed. they would just skip it in their move to Southend (see Westcliffe and Leigh on Mud).
A search on Twitter images of the place gets shows classic Dagenham – pix of motorbikes, tow trucks, West Ham and skips, as well as Get Fit classes and kids on an ‘educational’ trip to Asda. There is a worrying nude selfie of some bloke – something hipsters can be inclined to do – but I trust he’s just the usual self-employed plasterer and he was feeling a bit hot.
May 14, 2014 at 3:39 pm
I live In Hipster Central: Ipswich.
May 14, 2014 at 5:13 pm
A million to one? Hm. Where will they all go when they’ve been priced out of Hackney, Tower Hamlets and Waltham Forest (London boroughs I mean)? Romford, Ilford? They haven’t got good enough public transport connections (no tubes).
“Dagenham can never be turned”. Having moved away when it was a white ghetto and there were a fair few large, violent pubs and returned a couple of years later to see it (seemingly, not actually) as ethnically diverse as the more whiter bits of Peckham and all those pubs having closed down and become exorcism-r-us evangelical churches, the same fate having affected most of the greasy spoon caffs in the DAgenham bit of the A13 once Ford closed most of its plant, it can obviously be turned, and it will be turned again. To what, and by whom, is another thing.
Now the BNP has been wiped out, all those people from Hope Not Hate have vanished, those who were bussed in from elsewhere to tell the proles not to vote for those nasty nazis (but they did, in increasing numbers all the same; HNH only managed to increase the turnout and getting out ‘ethnic’ voters who’d stayed at home the council elections before, and they mainly voted Labour). So what will happen now?
May 14, 2014 at 7:55 pm
It’s a good point and I think these things are hard to predict.
Will 2050 see ultra hip Brighton finally become a conurbation of London when, at Gatwick, it merges into ever expanding London which spread hipsterism down from Brixton through Croydon and even Reigate?
Or will the movement of financial services to Calcutta, mean London goes the way of Lancashire and Hackney will turn once more, in the same way it was the country home of bankers in the late 18th century but then the council house home of those without even bank accounts two centuries later.
Crossrail (Shenfield to Reading via Liverpool St) will make some difference to Ilford and Romford but then Hackney went hipster without the Tube (even hard to reach Hackney Wick) before the London Overground extension.
But on recent trips to Dagenham I was snarled at by some big Alsatian behind a fence on River Rd, honestly could not get what some Essex girl from central casting said to me in a shop the first few times (and I’m very used to the accent), was called a ‘ponce’ and also marvelled at all the ads for breaker’s yards, builders supplies and ‘training to be a brickie’ courses in the Dagenham and Redbridge FC programme. I think the UN should give it some special listing to preserve it as the last of Cockney Geezer London.
May 15, 2014 at 12:52 am
Ipswich, I am not joking, is going that way.
It takes just over an hour to get to Liverpool Street for a start.
May 15, 2014 at 10:30 am
Be serious – the highlight of the Ipswich Museum art collection
May 15, 2014 at 3:28 pm
Game and match, comme dirait l’autre!
May 15, 2014 at 4:54 pm
& Set. “allotment holder” (and thus a peasant & so trying to turn back the clock of history hundreds of years in the country that first dispensed with that class) – v – ‘live in hipsterville’
Can’t be both. Is the former (despite use of unnecessary French).
May 15, 2014 at 5:20 pm
Most Dagenhamites believe they from part of Essex and are willing to fight to defend that belief, despite it becoming part of Greater London in 1965. No chance of UNESCO giving it Protected Cockney Geezer Lanahn status, unless as part of a gentrification drive, as an alternative to Eurodisney, which the local council spent much of the mid-1980s hoping for and then the Frogs went and took it off us. (Incidentally the ex-NF fash in Havering spent most of the 1990s trying to build their ‘Third Way’ based mainly on their central issue of renaming “The London Borough of Havering” to “Borough of Romford, Hornchurch and Upminster”. Anti-London, anti-borough name imposed in 1965. Old hates die slowly in this neck of the woods. White flight meant they didn’t have many ‘darkies’ or ‘Yugoslavs’ to complain about (but that never stopped the BNP in Dagenham).
Having spent the first 18 years of my life there and leaving (the country) at the first opportunity, I am well aware that it is a shithole and I wouldn’t glorify that. It deserves to be ‘turned’, as it can only -and does -fail the vast majority of those who live there, for generations. If you don’t leave while young, and traditionally that was through sport, music, or becoming the Archbishop of Canterbury, you are destined to remain their for ever. But the only way out of this horrible mess, I suspect, would be the ‘Slough solution’.
“Ponce” – were you drinking something apart from Carling/Stella? Dare I say it, a soft drink, or even, ugh, wine?
A bus journey through the area can still be very interesting, especially when you notice that the people who are most articulate in the English language on the 103, 173, 175 or 145 have Portuguese, Bosnian/Serbian/Croatian or maybe (possibly) ex-colonial French as their first language. The local dialect, in comparison, is little more than angry snarling, mainly made up of swearwords, which suggests that UKIP will do well, if they’ve stood any candidates, next week (my three bus journeys were a fortnight ago). I witnessed a nice exhibition of this when a wheelchair had to get on and three shopping trolleys and a buggy were blocking the space. Local woman in her 50s shouts at and about the ‘pakis’ to move their buggy. Said man rightly ignores her, I suggest she moves her two shopping trolleys as well, she screams “It’s my bus, I was f****** ere first”, whcih was strange, because she’d only got on one stop before. But: at the conditions of carriage of TfL state, those who have the longest anglo-saxon linage shall get space to park their vehicles in the wheelchair space ahead of those with small children who might be maybe ‘a bit foreign’. To prevent himself from being attacked by a rabid woman, he (wisely) got off and probably had to pay his fare twice when he got on the next bus half an hour later. She got off the next stop.
How I miss it.
May 15, 2014 at 5:21 pm
Hackney might have gone ‘hipster’ without the tube, but it was the addition of the tube which turned it from hipsterville (in a niche, along with the urban poor and the locals) to playground for the moneyed white-collared (as opposed to the precarious artist types), the usual next step in such a process, which would have taken much longer to happen without the olympics, the east london line extension etc.
May 15, 2014 at 5:31 pm
Yes, that’s Dagenham.
Someone’s kids I know there were ‘corrected’ at school, by a teacher, when they said where they lived, and Romford, where both in Greater London but corrected in a way that suggested the teacher really thought he was in Essex. No-one in East Ham or Stratford thinks that they are in Essex although they were until the same time as Dagenham.
I think, as you suspect, “It’s my bus, I was f****** ere first” is a reference to her being ‘born and bred’ Dagenham, not which stop she got on.
It’s interesting how I see no sign of a positive working class culture having developed in the way that it did in say the Rhondda or places like Renault’s large Boulogne-Billancourt plant in Paris. Fords Dagenham (opened 1931) being sometime said to have been the biggest plant in Western Europe (sounds dubious).
But having said that, maybe I’m too late and I do recall east London ‘Labour movement’ types often stating they are ‘ex – Fords, Shop Steward’ (Rod Finlayson, standing now for the CPB in Newham, mentions that he was) and there is probably little left of that solidarity etc, in the South Wales valleys now as well.
I bet Sandie Shaw never went back but I will until they have all gone to Essex (the real one). I can’t deny being a tourist.
May 15, 2014 at 6:34 pm
Ah, Rod Finlayson*, the old Tankfrom the T&G, is still about, is he? He was indeed a Ford’s steward, (as was my dad (who was in the ‘real’ CPGB), but a decade or two previously). I don’t think though it would impress or even interest very many people at all these days though. (*was he always in the CP(B)? I seem to remember him having a Labour Party card, not that the politics would have been very different….)
Positive working class culture? I think the Labourites and ‘christian socialists’ that planned and ran the place did their best to prevent anything in society they couldn’t control – i.e. anything at all- from developing. Of course, in the late 70s the NF were pretty strong, but Thatcherism finished that off.
Sandie Shaw lived on Rainham Road (North, I think), in a 1950s council maisonette, not too far from the football ground. George Carey lived at Beacontree Heath (another local argument, is is Beacontree or Becontree, and if it is Becontree, do you speak it with the ‘a’ in it anyway?), as did, I think, Dudley Moore, the wifebeating Hollywood pianist.
The difference between East Ham and Stratford people and Dagenham etc. is that those in Dagenham, two to four generations back come from what is now Newham, so they ‘moved out, into the (Essex) countryside’, which is probably why there is this ‘Essex nationalism’. If I was London I’d gladly let the place be run from Chelmsford, or wherever Essex County Council is. Or from Mars.
May 16, 2014 at 2:33 pm
My mum was life-long Labour card-carrier and CPGB fellow-traveller.
East End (East Ham – yes it was on her birth certificate), and look what her progeny turned out to be!
May 16, 2014 at 4:40 pm
Rod Finlayson: living (I hope) proof that you can be a complete and utter lunatic, politically, and still remain a nice person and entertaining company.
May 16, 2014 at 9:36 pm
If your mother was born in East Ham, she was from Essex (unless you are perhaps 20) and she was not from the ‘East End’ at all (which is Bethnal Green, Whitechapel, Bow etc., maybe Hackney at a stretch). I am sorry because I know as living in Ipswich, you need some kind of credibility, but being the ‘son of a cockney’ is not possible for you – rejoice in what you are. I’m a Northerner.
I’m wondering what a lunatic CPBer (or CPGBer pre 1991) would be like – unless such means a fanatic for Mao, Stalin, killing ‘Trotskyites’, etc. I’m sure I can imagine some like Palme Dutt chewing glass but the trouble I always found with the CPers was that they were not at all ‘lunatics’, in the good way that a Trot is – they were always seeking accommodation, the middle road, etc.
I think some of that designation may relate to Denham’s experience with the CPGB in 70s Birmingham when they would have had some weight and which they would have thrown around (As a teenager, I was kicked off the Peoples March for Jobs in 1981, and into a hedge by CP thugs when I tried to walk alongside it in Cheshire.) But I still think the CPGB were part of the UK workers movement in the way that their then cothinkers in the CPSU or the SED were not, but were part of the enemy in the USSR and DDR. I don’t think Denham does think that with his virulent attacks on the Morning Star. Some of its politics are grim, but then so are the AWL’s and both are part of the UK workers movement and both a lot better than Labour ‘Lefts’ (sic) who get far too easy a ride – they are part of the enemy
I was surprised to see that Finlayson was a Respect candidate in the past so he must have left the CPB and returned. He is well and I have seen him out canvassing but I have not seen any CPB posters up.
Which is pretty much how most of Newham is – no posters up except in many businesses and which is probably the most common occupation of candidates from all the parties (One Labour councillor is the landlord of 16 properties but was mislisting quite a few until I pointed this out.)
One Labour candidate has been seen at political party meetings supporting a Labour candidate, another for the left of Labour Independent Mayor Rahman in Tower Hamlets and at another for a Tory candidate in Barking and Dagenham. Four Tory candidates also once stood for Respect in Newham, Labour’s only council in which they have all the councillors (I believe.) Most businesses in the ward where Finlayson is standing have a collection of posters for most of the parties and these seem to go up and down depending on which candidate visited last. An east European supermarket there has just one poster up – and the only one I have seen in the borough – for UKIP.
May 16, 2014 at 11:08 pm
People say “hipster” in England, too? Blimey.
May 17, 2014 at 6:06 am
People on Facebook say Hipster.
Nobody in real life me ole mucker
May 17, 2014 at 10:58 am
She was indeed from Essex. she grew up in Ilford.
Her dad (my English grandfather) was a printer for the Times, and a member of the Clarion cycling Club and LP.
So I suppose that makes me, er what?
I was born in Archway, Whittington Hospital.
May 17, 2014 at 11:02 am
I always insist both my kids are Cockneys, despite having cut-glass accents and living in the bucolic splendour of Palmers Green, because they were both born in the Whittington, which as you know has the cat monument marking the spot where Dick Whittington heard the Bow bells. Despite the fact that it is impossible to hear the Bow bells on Highgate HIll nowadays, I take that as proof that they were born within the sound.
May 17, 2014 at 11:38 am
They do say ‘hipster’ over here (Germany) ‘in real life’.
The only Vote labour posters I saw in Dagenham were A4 sized and in the windows of ‘ethnic’ food shops. Not a single one in living-room windows, the massive things on the roofs of houses, and indeed, pubs, at strategic traffic junctions, which used to be a feature of election campaigns there as late as 1997 or maybe later = not to be seen. Even local Labour / Socialist Appeal councillors didn’t have anything in their front rooms or cars.
“’m wondering what a lunatic CPBer (or CPGBer pre 1991) would be like – unless such means a fanatic for Mao, Stalin, killing ‘Trotskyites’, etc.”
You’ve met my dad, then? (Though he is capable, sometimes, of being, if not an overly “nice person but at least entertaining company”). And they were “Euros”, or at least their local branch and district committee was (which must have been the last ‘Democratic Left’ branch in the country, still going until a few years ago when the main ex-CPGBer died).
May 17, 2014 at 11:40 am
I’ve found a video of Southpawpunch in that Dagenham pub. Can’t imagine why they called him a ponce.
May 17, 2014 at 11:42 am
Daggy, both Lee Chadwick and Wilf Page joined the Demoratic Left https://tendancecoatesy.wordpress.com/2009/11/29/wilf-page-norfolk-red/
May 17, 2014 at 11:56 am
Or indeed this:
May 18, 2014 at 12:52 pm
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